More Stack & Tilt Analysis

Stack and Tilt seems to be the hot golf concept right now. Since my original two articles, I continue to get a lot of traffic looking for information about Stack and Tilt. I’d like to look at it a little closer.

I’m not going to give a tutorial on the technique. I can’t do better than the original article at Golf Digest. What’s more interesting to me is the reaction I’ve gotten from people in person as well as what I’ve been reading all over the web. Many people seem to have a misconception about what’s going on in the swing.

Some people have looked at the photo sequence of Aaron Baddeley in Golf Digest and have trouble seeing the real difference between the Stack and Tilt and the typical modern swing. Some people claim that Baddely isn’t actually doing anything different except taking a shorter back swing.

So what I wanted to do is grab a video of Tiger Woods and a video of a Stack and Tilter and compare them. The Stack and Tilt guy in this case is Will MacKenzie. I actually used two clips of Tiger Woods because neither of them had everything I wanted to show. The first clip shows his address, while I used the second clip to show the top of the back swing and the impact position.

Let’s have a look.

This first image shows both players side by side at address. MacKenzie is on the left, Tiger is on the right:

Stack and Tilt and Conventional:  Address Position

There are several big differences here. First, you can see how Tiger’s spine angle tilts much more to the right. In both cases, the player’s spine angle extends through the ball. But look how much further back MacKenzie is playing the ball. Also, notice the pronounced tilt in Tiger’s hips. MacKenzie’s are almost level.

Here are the two at the top of the back swing:

Stack and Tilt and Conventional:  Top Position

Again, there are fairly significant differences. MacKenzie’s back swing is somewhat shorter. Here’s where we see the “Stack” in the Stack and Tilt. The center point of MacKenzie’s shoulders and hips are still in a line. Compare that with Tiger who is really on his right side there. His shoulders are centered over his right hip.

Another important distinction: I’ve heard people ask where the “tilt” is in the Stack and Tilt. The spine angle is tilted ever so slightly toward the target. Now, I admit, that looking at this photo, it looks like his spine is straight up. But imagine it this way: pretend you’re standing right behind MacKenzie in that photo and used one finger to touch the small of his back and the other finger to touch the spot right between his shoulder blades. The tip of the finger touching the spot between his shoulder blades would be a little closer to the target than the other finger. Try it for yourself (disclaimer: you should probably warn strangers before laying hands on them at the driving range. Saying, “Hey, I was checking you for Stack and Tilt” is a lame pick-up line).

(Update:  After watching the instructional DVDs, I have learned that the above analysis is, in fact, not where the “tilt” comes from in the name Stack and Tilt.  The left-tilt of the spine is not in relation to the target, but is in relation to the rest of the body.  This is part of what allows the shoulders to turn in a circle instead of shifting laterally.  Plummer and Bennett do a great job of explaining this in the DVDs.)

Finally, let’s look at the impact positions.

Stack and Tilt and Conventional:  Impact Position

There are some very pronounced differences here. For instance, look how far behind the ball Tiger’s head is. MacKenzie is still almost right on top of the ball. Also, you can see that MacKenzie’s hips are still virtually level, while Tiger’s hip tilt has actually increased. MacKenzie’s left side is already straight and Tiger is still getting there. This is due to the can-crushing move with the left leg (see the Golf Digest article). That’s what allows him to get those hips thrusting upward, allowing him to shallow out his swing path to keep from smothering the ball.

It looks like MacKenzie is going to make impact with a slightly descending blow, while Tiger is level or slightly ascending. I don’t know how typical this is for the Stack and Tilt, or if it was a mistake. That could cost MacKenzie a little distance.

There you have it. I hope that clears up some of the misconceptions about the Stack and Tilt versus the modern golf swing. Keep in mind that when you watch Tour pros play, they have such incredible grace and tempo that their swings can look very similar, especially when the finish positions might be fairly close. But when you look at the detail, the differences become much more clear.

——————————————–
Further Reading:

Effectiveness of the Stack and Tilt Swing (Life in the Rough)
Stack and Tilt Instructional DVD Set (Life in the Rough)
Golf Digest Revisits the Stack and Tilt (Life in the Rough)
Stack and Tilt: A Follow Up (Life in the Rough)
The Stack and Tilt? (Life in the Rough)
The New Tour Swing (Golf Digest, June 2007)
Stack and Tilt Part 2 (Golf Digest, September 2007)
Stack and Tilt Critics Speak Out (Golf Digest, September 2007)


Stack and Tilt Golf Swing Videos by Medicus Golf

Comments

  1. Tiger swing says:

    Nice post. Havent seen your blog before but been doing some reading on the S&T lately and came across your post.

    Another nice article on the swing that I found

    http://www.articlegold.com/Article/Understanding-the–Stack-and-Tilt–Golf-Swing/5359

    Anyways, bookmarked and will swing by when I have time.

  2. Double Eagle says:

    Welcome Tiger! Glad you enjoyed the post.

    I’ve actually read that article by Rick Hendershot. It’s a nice look at the Stack and Tilt. I like his point about the pelvic thrust. I emphasized that move when I tried the swing out for myself and I could really tell the difference when I got it right. I think my attention to that was one reason that I was able to pick it up fairly quickly. With a proper set up and attention to that move, much of the work is done.

  3. Jay Strauss says:

    do you recommend this swing for seniors?–I’m a 14+, not all that flexible (never was), but in great shape otherwise–can I get lessons in the San Francisco Bay Area (Marin county is best)?

  4. Double Eagle says:

    Thanks for coming by, Jay!

    Unfortunately, I don’t feel I have enough expertise to say whether this swing is a good fit for senior players. My goal is to become a pro, but I’m not there yet. I’d really hate to steer you wrong and possibly upset your golf game or physical well-being.

    I do feel that the stack and tilt relies on a forceful upward thrust of the pelvis as well as speedy hip rotatation. If you feel that you can accomplish those things, then you have to decide whether it’s worth giving it a try.

    That said, I think your idea about getting lessons is a good one. I can’t say I know any pros in the San Francisco area, but a good place to check would be any local golf courses or golf schools. Another good resource is the internet, of course. The PGA of America website can help you find a local pro. Check out http://www.pga.com/improve/index.cfm

    It would be best to find someone that’s versed in the Stack and Tilt, but that might be tough since it seems to be in the early stages of popularity. Either way, a good pro will be able to understand what you want and help you to see what’s best for you.

    Good luck to you. Stop back and let us know how you make out.

    Mike

  5. Ed Williams says:

    Great article. I have been experimenting the last couple of weeks w/ the Stack and Tilt and I am hitting my irons the best that I ever have. I do need some help w/ my driver though, while everything else is better, I’m having a hard time getting off the tee.
    Any advice for the driver ?

    Thanks,
    Ed

  6. Double Eagle says:

    Ed, what kind of trouble are you having with the driver?

    My experience with the Stack and Tilt is somewhat limited, but I could see a couple of spots that might give you trouble with the driver.

    First, we have a natural tendency to really get behind the ball with the driver with the conventional swing. If you’re shifting to the right some and lose your “stack” that could cause problems. Have trust that the swing will work and stay stacked with the center points of your shoulders and hips over top of each other.

    The second potential problem I could see is that you might top the ball if your swing path isn’t shallowing out enough, causing you to smother the ball. If that’s happening, you might want to make sure you’re really getting enough of that upward pelvis thrust by straightening your left leg quickly (like you’re crushing a can under your left foot). Also, be sure you’re getting enough rotational speed in your hips. So, crush that can, spin that left pocket around to the left, and feel that pelvis thrusting upward. (That all assumes you’re a right hander. Reverse for lefties)

  7. Ed Williams says:

    Thanks for the feedback.

    I actually took a few swings on video today, and I believe its the hips.
    Suprisingly, staying stacked comes easy for me, but my left hip is not getting out of the way, causing me to come over the top just a little. My bad tee balls are either high slices or pull hooks.

    Does that make sense ?

    Thanks,
    Ed

  8. Double Eagle says:

    Ed, I believe that makes sense.

    With the Stack and Tilt, because the weight is more to the left (if you’re right handed), the tendency is to make a much more descending blow. That’s great for the irons, not so much for the driver. With the driver, the move with the hips and pelvis is much more critical.

    If your left hip isn’t getting cleared enough, then there’s a good chance your arms and shoulders are outracing your torso, and causing you to get over the top, as you observed.

    That, combined with the descending blow would cause a high slice, except when you manage to flip your club face closed, where you’ll get a pull hook.

    Next time you’re on the range, really concentrate on the can-crushing move with your forward leg and also on turning that forward pocket away for good rotation. It’s probably just something that will just change slowly. Be patient and it will come.

    Mike

  9. Milo says:

    I have been teaching a for several years. After reading about the Stack and Tilt, I deciding I would try to teach this swing to a couple of students. These students have always had trouble with transfering the weight from right to left. After one lesson, both lessons hit the ball more solid and more consistant. They both said that it felt so easy to make contact with the ball. For the first time they had confidence about hitting the ball every time. I recommend this to all who struggle with there own golf swing.

    Thanks,

    Milo

  10. Jeff says:

    I’m still a beginner and I decided to try the S&T because I wanted to have a single-plane swing style. To my surprise I had great success within minutes on the range. I was hitting the center of the face more frequently than before, and my trajectory had more zip. Plus I could swing (turn through) harder without getting out of sync. I am very comfortable using these techniques.

    I want to know what setup adjustments I will need to make for imperfect lies i.e. downhill and ball-below-feet.

    Also, does the S&T work for short pitches and bunker shots?

  11. Double Eagle says:

    Welcome, Jeff!

    You make an excellent point about being able to turn harder. I didn’t really put it together until you mentioned it, but I definitely agree that I could turn harder without getting out of sync. That could be why people are seeing increased distance.

    I can’t say I’m sure about adjustments to the lie. My guess would be that the adjustments would be similar to those in the conventional swing. Maybe someone who had tried it from those lies can speak up and let us know.

    Finally, regarding short pitches and bunker shots, I also haven’t tried the swing in those situations, but my feelings tell me that the stack and tilt is unnecessary in those situations. The stack and tilt helps with the weight transfer needed for the traditional swing that leads to inconsistency. That weight transfer is virtually non-existent in short game finesse shots. At least in the sense of turning over the right hip and getting weight onto the right side in the back swing.

    For the short game, I recommend Dave Pelz’s Short Game Bible. He teaches a swing for the short game that’s very different from the full swing. I don’t buy into the fact that a pitch is just a small full swing, so I’m a big Pelz fan.

  12. jack dabulis says:

    I have practiced the
    t&S method,and I agree that when your timing is correct the ball explodes off the clubface. Also, ball stays on line.

    The major problem I experience with this method is shanking the ball. I think I am moving my head causing the club face to open up. I am curious if anyone else had the same problem.

    If I can solve and figure out how to avoid this shanking problem, I would recommend this swing highly to anyone who lacks consistancy like I do. Jack Dabulis
    If

  13. Double Eagle says:

    Jack,

    Shanking is rarely caused from an open club face. Though your head may be moving, likely your whole upper body is getting closer to the ball at impact. Your head just follows along.

    I did a post about the shanks a while back with a few techniques to solve the problem. You can read it here:
    http://www.lifeintherough.com/2007/05/21/the-shanks/

    Good luck!

  14. Jeff says:

    I have only been practicing the S&T for a week so I still have some mis-hits both fat and thin. I think this is because the old habits of the conventional swing creep in when I’m not fully focused.

    I think there are a few things to remember. For one, there is still such a thing as over-swing meaning that if you swing to hard and get off balance, you are likely to top or shank the ball. Also, clearing out the hips too fast causes me to release the club early (casting) and hit it fat. Remember, your hips have to be fairly square and level half way down. You can’t just spin out and expect to flush it.

    Finally, the thing that took a while to get is that in the S&T I am centered on the ball throughout the swing, so there is no need to shift toward the target on the downswing. It is very hard to break that habit but I have gotten better at turning through right where I am centered.

    Double Eagle, I thought about what you said regarding the short pitches and bunker shots. I agree that pitches are not just small swings and I also agree that there is no need to transfer weight for these finesse shots. That’s exactly why I figured the S&T would be ideal. The Stack and Tilt is designed to control where the club strikes the ground by keeping your body centered back and through, taking the weight transfer and lateral shifting out of the equation.

    So I tried using the techniques of the S&T in my short pitches and I have to say I was remarkably more consistant in striking the ball and in controlling my distances. I think you should give it a try before you decide one way or the other.

    Jeff in S.A. TX

  15. Double Eagle says:

    Thanks for the update, Jeff!

    Interesting thoughts and observations especially regarding the pitch shots. You make a good point about how pitches and the Stack and Tilt are related.

    Do you feel like distance control is there with the pitches? I’m just thinking about my brief experimentation with the stack and tilt and the quick hip motion and can-crushing motion that make it work. I’m wondering if those kind of moves tend to add power when it’s not really desired as with short pitches. Or is it that those moves are still there but just happen at a slower speed?

    Glad you gave it a try and reported back. If you don’t mind, I’d love to hear more updates as time goes on.

    -Mike

  16. Jeff says:

    Mike,

    You are exactly right… the stomping the can motion is not necessary. Let me try to explain how I make it work for me. Remember I’m still a beginner and definitely not a teacher.

    I think I still set up fairly traditionally for my pitches. I open my stance and I also open the clubface in my left grip. I stack my hips and shoulders over the ball, but I set my knees toward my target and put most of my weight (maybe 70-30) on my front foot. So the way I see it, I have already crushed the can at address. Does that make any sense? I try to keep my weight forward with a stable lower body on the backswing.

    The main things I use from the S&T in my pitches are a vertical (stacked) spine at address, the tilting left toward the target on the backswing and swinging my hands on a circular arc around my ribcage. I don’t try to generate any power on the swing, I just concentrate on making a smooth turn with my hips and shoulders while staying centered over the ball.

    My confidence is soaring high right now because I feel like I can hit the center of the clubface every time, even on high flop shots. Same thing goes from the bunker, only I have to set my center behind the ball several inches. It’s like I’m rotating around the spot where I want the club to enter the sand.

    That reminds me… I had trouble making the S&T work on my long irons, woods, and driver. I came up with a way to produce desirable results and a repeatable swing.

    See, with the ball forward in the stance, it makes you want to shift left (for righties) on the downswing. You don’t want any shifting in the S&T, so it’s almost like you have to hang-back a bit to square the face. I try set the axis of my rotation around the center of my stance (maybe slightly forward of center) as opposed to rotating around the ball.

    ‘Til next time…

    Jeff in S.A. TX

  17. Double Eagle says:

    Great information, Jeff.

    I see what you’re saying about feeling like you already crushed the can at address, but I’m not sure that’s what’s going on (maybe it is…you can tell me). In the full swing, the can crushing move helps to straighten the left leg, keeping the hips level and shallowing out the swing arc. It sounds more like you’re just setting up with your weight left, not so much with a straight left leg.

    With much of your weight to the left, you’re ensuring a nice descending blow giving you crisp contact. Perhaps the can crushing move just isn’t necessary for delicate shots.

    I also love your point about bunker shots. Many players have trouble trying to be consistent in the bunker because of weight transfer and a shafting point of entry in the sand. It seems like you took out all the guesswork and gave yourself excellent consistency.

  18. Jeff says:

    Okay Mike,

    I see what you’re getting at on the finesse shots. Actually, I do straighten the right leg going back while tilting, and then I straighten the left leg going down. Like I said I am not trying to generate power with this move, I’m just trying to make a smooth turn. It probably does help to shallow out the swing, but my reasoning for straightening the left leg while turning through is to compensate for my hip rotation. What I mean is that the right hip turns higher going back (right leg straightens, left leg flexes), and the left hip turns higher going through (left leg straightens, right leg flexes). This helps to keep my waist and shoulders turning on parallel planes, keeping the spine straight and stacked.

  19. Double Eagle says:

    I see what you’re saying, Jeff. Very interesting.

    I’m learning so much from all the comments. Keep them coming!

  20. Jeff says:

    I just want to add a couple of thoughts…

    First of all, I have some serious lower back problems. I have a bulging disk that bothers me from time to time and causes my lower back to spasm and tense up. Before I switched to the Stack & Tilt, I had major back pain from my spine compressing and stretching while twisting in my swing. The pain would last for days even after plenty of rest, stretching, heat therapy etc.

    Now that I have been practicing the S&T, my back feels absolutely great. I practiced Sunday, Monday and Tuesday for more than 3 hrs each day taking mostly full swings trying to get used to the new techniques. Remarkably, I have no soreness or tension today. It is amazing. I have no doubt that the S&T would be ideal for anyone who has back problems. It keeps your spine straight throughout the entire swing and eliminates all compressing and stretching.

    However, I would not recommend the Stack & Tilt for anyone with knee or hip problems. Since the spinal column stays straight, the knees and hips must do all the compressing and stretcing to compensate. There is significantly more stress on these joints, particularly the left knee.

    Also, I have been able to hit my longer irons much better than ever before. I practiced with my 4 iron for about an hour yesterday, both off the tee and off the deck. I was hitting them high and straight with the occasional draw. For me that is remarkable.

    I am completely sold on the Stack and Tilt and I feel like I have improved exponentially in the two weeks I have been practicing it. My only concern is that because the swing is so revolutionary and new, there isn’t a whole lot of info out there from golf pros regarding these techniques. So basically I’m on my own in trying to develop a consistent, repeatable swing.

  21. Double Eagle says:

    That’s fascinating information Jeff. I have a herniated disk as well, so this is something I’ve really been wondering.

    I’ll be interested to hear if you’re able to maintain the Stack and Tilt as time goes on.

    As you said, there’s just not much information out there about the swing so you’re kind of blazing the trail. Information like this from you and from others will help build knowledge about the swing that other players will take great value from.

    -Mike

  22. Tiger Swing says:

    Thx Jeff, great info

  23. Jeff says:

    OPEN THE CLUBFACE

    I think it’s important to take a neutral to weak grip when you practice this swing. A grip that is too strong will have terrible effects on the strike.

    I believe that the extreme inside-out hand path promotes a draw, even with a weak grip. However, with a strong grip, the angular momentum of the club wants to slam the face shut during descent. This leads to smothered shots, low hooks, shanks off the toe and fat shots due to digging the toe.

    It feels strange right now, but using a weaker grip is giving me fantastic results. My divots are level and square at the point of impact, I’m getting a really soft feel when I strike the ball, and the trajectory is unbelievable.

    Jeff in S.A. TX

  24. Double Eagle says:

    Great tip, Jeff.

    How are your scores looking since you took up the stack and tilt? From what I’m reading, you’ve solved a lot of the problems a new player takes a long time to solve. Ball striking that solid is a seriously good thing.

  25. Jeff says:

    Mike,

    I have not been on the course since my swing changes. I wanted to give myself at least a month before I went into battle with my new weapon. I have been playing for about 20 months and my lowest score is 82 with an average of about 90.

    Let me say that I had a very decent swing before I switched over. I did not suffer from many of the common swing faults that plague most newbies. I work very hard at my game, I understand the fundamental elements of a good swing, I learn quickly and I have good body control.

    My main reason for switching was that I was uncomfortable keeping the club on-plane going back. Some days were good and other days I couldn’t get the club above my waist without feeling completely off plane. I wanted to develop a swing in which my arms and hands moved the same way around my body regardless of the club.

    I’m sure the new swing will get me around the course better and have me playing from the short grass, but I don’t expect scores to change until my distance control and short game improve. I really need to spend more time on the putting green.

    Jeff in S.A. TX

  26. Double Eagle says:

    My suspicion is that once you get back onto the course, your distance control will be fine. The consistent ball striking that you’re seeing will ensure that.

    Many times when players miss, it’s because of the quality of the strike. If you hitting center face most of the time, you’ll have distances down right away.

    Having a good understanding of the wind is important too, but you probably already have that. It’ll just be a matter of feeling out how your new ball flight reacts, but you’re already doing that on the range.

    You’re right about spending more time on the putting green. Having such a rapid positive transformation can make it tough to work on other parts of your game because it’s so much fun to hit full shots.

    As Ben Hogan said in his book “Power Golf”, par for a course allows for 36 putts per round. That’s 50% of the total strokes. You can make up for a less than perfect iron or wedge shot with a good putt, but you can never make up for a bad putt.

  27. Jeff says:

    I hope you’re right about my distance control. The only thing is, my distance has increased so I’m not even sure what yardages to expect. I have to recalibrate or something.

    Also, it seems like the balls I use on the course go about 15-25 yards further than a range ball depending on the club. Does that sound reasonable?

    I do understand how the wind affects the flight, but sometimes I forget to account for it. My inexperience causes me much more trouble than my skill level. I mean I feel like I have the tools to par or birdie every hole, but the details get me. Whether it’s the lie, wind or other conditions, I seem to overlook the fine points sometimes.

  28. Double Eagle says:

    Don’t worry, Jeff. You’ll have to recalibrate, but it should be relatively quick. After your first several approaches you should have a feel for how your new distances compare to your old one. Then you’ll just make a conscious adjustment of clubbing down the right amount. Even if your first couple rounds are not great, it’ll be in a good way and you’ll adjust.

    You’re right about range balls. It kind of varies, but it’s difficult to calibrate distances with them. Some ranges buy balls that are made to fly a little shorter. Sometimes it’s fairly close to premium balls, sometimes not. Also, they tend to get worn and the dimples don’t work as hard as they used to.

    From what I understand, living in Texas, you’re getting a PhD in wind play. That’ll come over time. It might take a bit, but you’ll get a feel for the proper adjustments.

    Also, you mention forgetting the finer points and details. It sounds to me like you’re in fine shape for a beginner, and that you do have the tools to score well. Consider doing some study into the mental game. It’s not that I think you have a problem in that area, but it seems like many beginning players let themselves over think a lot, and I wouldn’t want to see you start to get overwhelmed with the details. Cluttering your thoughts with swing details can kill a round.

    I recommend “Golf is not a Game of Perfect”. I did a review of it in the last week or so if you’re interested. It has had a real effect on my own game.

  29. dana says:

    You need a stronger grip!Not too strong, just 45 degrees with the left hand.

  30. Jeff says:

    Hey Dana,

    That’s great if it works for you. However, the original article in GD specifies a neutral grip for this swing. 45 degrees sounds excessive, so if you need such a strong grip to make the shot fly straight, then you are not executing the Stack and Tilt properly.

    I only recommended a weaker grip because I know many amateurs use a strong grip to compensate for other swing faults such as coming over the top. I just wanted people to know where to look if they ran into particular problems like digging the club or pulling low hooks. Dana, maybe you already used a weak grip before so there is no big change necessary for you. However, there are many people who have used a strong grip all their life. Weakening the the grip will feel strange to these folks, but will be necessary to get positive results.

    Double Eagle,

    I didn’t think I was ready, but my brother dragged me out on the course this past weekend. All of your predictions were true. By the third hole I was taking one less club. I hit more greens than ever and gave myself plenty of birdie opportunities. And as you said, catching the center of the clubface makes all the difference in the world. Other than a couple of bad breaks and one bonehead error, I played the round of my life to date.

    Yes, I absolutely agree that I should focus on the mental aspect of the game. I don’t think I have a problem there either, but a good mental approach will only make me better. I am not a golfer but rather a competitor who is learning to golf.

    Jeff in S.A. TX

  31. Double Eagle says:

    Glad to hear that, Jeff! Your description of yourself as a competitor who is learning to golf is interesting. I think we’re very similar.

    There you have it, everyone. A stack and tilt success story.

    FYI, Golf Digest ran another stack and tilt article in this month’s issue (September 2007; it just arrived at my door two days ago). There’s more information from Bennett and Plummer about the swing, including some criticisms from other instructors and rebuttals from them.

  32. dana says:

    Stronger is better sorry Mike and Andy are friends of mine. Weak would work it just makes you use the clubface to square up more.

  33. Jeff says:

    Good Dana,

    Since you are all such chums, please ask Mike and Andy why Golf Digest said neutral grip when they really meant 45 degrees closed.

  34. Double Eagle says:

    Dana, the Golf Digest article does mention a neutral grip. I know there’s some controversy over the Baddeley photos (as to whether that’s what he actually does when swinging for real), but his grip seems pretty neutral to me there.

    Is the stronger grip a customization that you’re teaching to solve a problem? Or is it just a preference that you have?

  35. dana says:

    A weaker grip would make many golfers hook the ball. However there are ways around it. The pictures in GD were not edited. But the feeling is very close. Look in the new GD at Mike’s grip that would be a good model to follow. The problem with most golfers when they swing is they don’t get to impact with enough lean of the shaft and pivot. Even with the Driver.If you look under the TGM book for the HIP Bump Hula ect.. you will find a axis tilt at impact do to the hips moving forward on the downswing.As long as there is no slow down of rotaion you will have an easy time getting Lean.

    When a new player is working on a draw keep in mind the target line. Make sure that the ball starts right of it. Put a dowel or a Tee in front of the ball about six to ten feet out and see the ball going on the right side of it.(you will be aiming your body left of it)Remember golf is played in an ARC the ball wants to curve to some degree.

    May the course be with you!

  36. Mark in KY says:

    I literally read the Golf Digest article, got out of the car and 20 balls on the button. Then went out and birdied the first hole I played. I think this swing is a dream iron swing, but takes some getting used to with the driver. You must do everything right with the driver, especially “crushing the can” and having your weight distributed correctly. Also, you have to keep your head “on the ball” with the driver. In some ways the S&T is inverse in difficulty to the tradional swing in that the long irons are easier to hit than a driver-for me anyway. Keep the driver tips coming, and a list of local teaching pros/schools would be helpful.

  37. Double Eagle says:

    Glad to hear about your success, Mark.

    You bring up a great point about a list of schools. It would be good to keep a list of Stack and Tilt resources. The swing is still kind of new (in the sense that it’s getting out to the mainstream now), but I’ll see what I can track down and start putting a page together. If anyone knows of any stack and tilt schools or teachers, shoot me an e-mail.

  38. Jeff says:

    Dana, that’s a great point about the hip rotation and shaft angle at impact. Thanks!

    I would also like to see more info about how to use this swing with the driver.

    Jeff in S.A. TX

  39. Double Eagle says:

    Jeff, check out my post from today. Golf Digest did a stack and tilt follow-up this month which included tips on hitting the driver.

  40. Vic says:

    I am a 10 handicapper and have a conventional swing, loading into the right side and struggle with pulls, hooks, and fat shots with the mid and short irons. It never made sense why I hit my driver and fairway woods and long irons consistently clean but tend to overcook the irons until now. For my “conventional swing” the shallower approach of the club is great for the driver and long shots, but tends to cause toe digs or closed club face, or a combination of both on shorter clubs. I tried the S&T with a small bucket and 7 and 5 irons and did not hit one fat shot. In fact to my amazement I actually pushed a few dead right. Amazing because I generally have to aim right to pull and draw an iron to the target. I am going to keep my long shot swing for the long shots and work on the S&T for short and mid irons. I really don’t see any problem using both swings. I always used a form of S&T with pitches, wedge approach shots anyway. It just never dawned on me to use it for 5,6,7 irons. With a few more practice buckets I am hoping to get down to single digit handicap yet this year.

  41. Double Eagle says:

    Good luck, Vic. Let us know how you progress.

  42. Barry Hibbs says:

    I started Stack and tilt after a local unknown beat 4 champs, match play, in our District using stack and tilt for 6 weeks.
    I researched same on Golf Digest. It seemed similiar to the swing jacket which I’ve use. Arms never leaving the chest just sliding left and right on the chest, with a lot of body turn. I always have taken the club too far inside and this swing promotes same. The main difference for me was the weight staying left and holding the stack thru-out.
    Practiced twice 80 balls each time. Took to course and shot 2 -87′s. I’m a 16, used to be a 10-11 and am 66, fitness guy also.
    One of the 87′s was with 4 doubles and 1 triple. Hit more good to excellent shots than I’ve done in a long time. I tended to hit them high but I was hitting low shots, fat shots andd smother shots before.
    When I do it right the ball invariably goes straight. It takes the hands and most of the arms out of the shot. I used to be a armsy,wristy player.
    To me this is a body swing and you better make a big forward turn or it will fail.
    I’ve had instant success and am going to persist with the stack and tilt.

  43. dd says:
  44. Jeff says:

    I played again on Friday, only 3 weeks after I switched to the Stack and Tilt, and I shot 80 on one of the toughest courses in town. I really should have gone lower, but I’m still working on hitting my driver straight. Things are coming along well… hitting fairways and greens, and playing better golf than I ever thought I was capable of. I beat all my friends by 20 strokes… they don’t know what hit ‘em.

    My swing works great but is still a bit raw. I could be doing some things better like keeping the backswing short and compact, and getting more extension back and through. Maybe its time to refine things using videotape.

    Jeff in S.A. TX

  45. Double Eagle says:

    I’m a huge fan of video analysis. Especially in this case where you’re trying to change your entire swing.

    It’s great to hear that things are going so well!

  46. Jeff says:

    Thanks Dana for the info. I picked up another 10 yards by rotating my hips better. Please continue to share any techniques that are key for this swing.

    Jeff in S.A. TX

  47. Steve Lake says:

    I’ve tried the stack and tilt and I’ve been a single digit player for 40 years. I am finally hitting better irons shots for the first time in years!

  48. Double Eagle says:

    That’s great to hear Steve. One thing I’m noticing is that the stack and tilt isn’t just helping high handicappers. It’s helping players with single digit handicaps and, of course, even Tour pros.

  49. Steve Lake says:

    Hitting the irons a lot better but my driver is either a low hook or a push. How can I correct this?

  50. Double Eagle says:

    Steve, there were some tips for hitting the driver in the Golf Digest September 2007 follow-up. That link should take you to the start of the driver slides in the slide show. Check it out and see if anything rings any bells.

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