More Stack & Tilt Analysis

Stack and Tilt seems to be the hot golf concept right now. Since my original two articles, I continue to get a lot of traffic looking for information about Stack and Tilt. I’d like to look at it a little closer.

I’m not going to give a tutorial on the technique. I can’t do better than the original article at Golf Digest. What’s more interesting to me is the reaction I’ve gotten from people in person as well as what I’ve been reading all over the web. Many people seem to have a misconception about what’s going on in the swing.

Some people have looked at the photo sequence of Aaron Baddeley in Golf Digest and have trouble seeing the real difference between the Stack and Tilt and the typical modern swing. Some people claim that Baddely isn’t actually doing anything different except taking a shorter back swing.

So what I wanted to do is grab a video of Tiger Woods and a video of a Stack and Tilter and compare them. The Stack and Tilt guy in this case is Will MacKenzie. I actually used two clips of Tiger Woods because neither of them had everything I wanted to show. The first clip shows his address, while I used the second clip to show the top of the back swing and the impact position.

Let’s have a look.

This first image shows both players side by side at address. MacKenzie is on the left, Tiger is on the right:

Stack and Tilt and Conventional:  Address Position

There are several big differences here. First, you can see how Tiger’s spine angle tilts much more to the right. In both cases, the player’s spine angle extends through the ball. But look how much further back MacKenzie is playing the ball. Also, notice the pronounced tilt in Tiger’s hips. MacKenzie’s are almost level.

Here are the two at the top of the back swing:

Stack and Tilt and Conventional:  Top Position

Again, there are fairly significant differences. MacKenzie’s back swing is somewhat shorter. Here’s where we see the “Stack” in the Stack and Tilt. The center point of MacKenzie’s shoulders and hips are still in a line. Compare that with Tiger who is really on his right side there. His shoulders are centered over his right hip.

Another important distinction: I’ve heard people ask where the “tilt” is in the Stack and Tilt. The spine angle is tilted ever so slightly toward the target. Now, I admit, that looking at this photo, it looks like his spine is straight up. But imagine it this way: pretend you’re standing right behind MacKenzie in that photo and used one finger to touch the small of his back and the other finger to touch the spot right between his shoulder blades. The tip of the finger touching the spot between his shoulder blades would be a little closer to the target than the other finger. Try it for yourself (disclaimer: you should probably warn strangers before laying hands on them at the driving range. Saying, “Hey, I was checking you for Stack and Tilt” is a lame pick-up line).

(Update:  After watching the instructional DVDs, I have learned that the above analysis is, in fact, not where the “tilt” comes from in the name Stack and Tilt.  The left-tilt of the spine is not in relation to the target, but is in relation to the rest of the body.  This is part of what allows the shoulders to turn in a circle instead of shifting laterally.  Plummer and Bennett do a great job of explaining this in the DVDs.)

Finally, let’s look at the impact positions.

Stack and Tilt and Conventional:  Impact Position

There are some very pronounced differences here. For instance, look how far behind the ball Tiger’s head is. MacKenzie is still almost right on top of the ball. Also, you can see that MacKenzie’s hips are still virtually level, while Tiger’s hip tilt has actually increased. MacKenzie’s left side is already straight and Tiger is still getting there. This is due to the can-crushing move with the left leg (see the Golf Digest article). That’s what allows him to get those hips thrusting upward, allowing him to shallow out his swing path to keep from smothering the ball.

It looks like MacKenzie is going to make impact with a slightly descending blow, while Tiger is level or slightly ascending. I don’t know how typical this is for the Stack and Tilt, or if it was a mistake. That could cost MacKenzie a little distance.

There you have it. I hope that clears up some of the misconceptions about the Stack and Tilt versus the modern golf swing. Keep in mind that when you watch Tour pros play, they have such incredible grace and tempo that their swings can look very similar, especially when the finish positions might be fairly close. But when you look at the detail, the differences become much more clear.

——————————————–
Further Reading:

Effectiveness of the Stack and Tilt Swing (Life in the Rough)
Stack and Tilt Instructional DVD Set (Life in the Rough)
Golf Digest Revisits the Stack and Tilt (Life in the Rough)
Stack and Tilt: A Follow Up (Life in the Rough)
The Stack and Tilt? (Life in the Rough)
The New Tour Swing (Golf Digest, June 2007)
Stack and Tilt Part 2 (Golf Digest, September 2007)
Stack and Tilt Critics Speak Out (Golf Digest, September 2007)


Stack and Tilt Golf Swing Videos by Medicus Golf

Comments

  1. Barry Hibbs says:

    August 27, 2007
    Regressed slightly with the stack and tilt but regained the swing and had an 84 recently w/ 4 doubles. Still hanging in there. I hit more greens than I’ve hit in years during this round when I had the timing of the stack and tilt right.

  2. Double Eagle says:

    That’s good to hear, Barry. Do you have any thoughts as to why you might have regressed a bit? Is it a matter have having the timing down on a particular day or just a matter of needing some more practice time?

    Either way, it’s great that you were able to recover and get back on track.

  3. Jeff says:

    I recently had some problems with this swing and it took me a couple of days to figure out what was wrong. It was simply a matter of keeping my hips centered over the ball on the backswing. I got off track while trying to polish up some of the fine details. I lost focus of what really makes this swing work, which is keeping the spine vertically aligned over the ball.

  4. Barry Hibbs says:

    I started hanging back and not turning fully to the left with my hips. Was hitting fat again. Also I think I was hunching over to much.
    Cure: Seemed to be a little more upright stance allowed me to tilt more easily. Anchoring my feet to the ground and really using the complete turn with the body, left on the forward swing.
    I have also found that if my swing thought is turning my right shoulder behind my head I don’t have to worry about the left knee and left shoulder moving towards the ball as the turning of the right shoulder behind the head automatically makes both go to the ball. It also makes the backswing go inside and the right leg straighten, if you keep your arms in contact with your chest. It also gives the tilt.
    You may suggest this to other starters, (that is) after stacking and favoring your left side, think only of turning the right shoulder behind your head will give you all the other desired backswing techniques without having all those thoughts in your head.
    This eliminated actually thinking of these other five moves.

    When I have problems now ,it seems it is on the forward swing. Getting my arms down to the ball before I clear my hips. It’s a timing thing and when it’s timed right I make pure contact and the ball go high and straight.
    When this stack and tilt is done right the ball invariable goes straighter than I have ever hit. I beleive this is because it’s a body swing and it takes my old wristy armsy swing out of play. The clubhead returns to address position which if aimed straight ,the ball goes straight.
    My hdcp. is down to 14 from 16 and it’s going lower next cycle. Let’s hope this lasts.
    Barry

  5. pezzimiztix says:

    the camera angles are totally different – you cannot accurately compare the two. the most important thing to remember with will’s swing is that his body action is a result of his severly open face – as a result his hand action through the ball is completely different than tiger’s. if your hand action is different your body action must compliment the face. no one’s head with a driver is on the ball or past the ball at impact. NO one – at least no one that can play worth a lick. i agree that the move has some benefit for someone who is severly inside to out. its just a feel though. and his entire theory on how the right elbow should be behind you coming down is ludacris. you explained it well… but you are still trying to sell the brooklyn bridge.

    thanks for the analysis

  6. Double Eagle says:

    Thanks for your thoughts, pezzimiztix.

    I’m not sure I agree that the camera angle is substantially different. It may not be identical, but if anything it looks to be a hair forward in the Tiger shots and directly face-on in Mackenzie’s.

    Also, I didn’t say that Mackenzie’s head was on top of or ahead of the ball, I said it was *almost* on top of the ball, but you’re right that it’s still behind.

    It’s evident, though, in every shot how much further back in his stance he’s playing the ball. If anything, the camera perspective being slightly more toward the middle in Mackenzie’s shots, the ball should appear to be more forward.

    With the ball further back, his head has to be closer to the ball at impact.

    I don’t use the swing myself, so I’m definitely not trying to sell any bridges. I’m just trying to figure out what’s going on.

  7. Stan Halter says:

    I began experimenting with S&T about five weeks ago after a horrible stretch where I just couldn’t get to my left side consistently. So far, it is the easiest swing change I have ever made. Using it in the bunkers is ideal too.

    Biggest problem I have had is overdoing the weight shift to the left on the backswing occasionally. It is so new that I can get too much on the left too soon then hang back on the right some.

    I still have some questions on ball position. But further back in my stance sems to work better….just not too much back!

    Fairways and greens numbers are better. Scores starting to fall.

    BTW…it does work on side hill lies. You just have to take your time swinging.

    Just found your site…great work! The revolution starts here..today!

    PS: I sprang for some expensive lessons with a Golf Mag top 100 pro last year…and only got worse. It is nice to improve for free!

  8. Double Eagle says:

    Thanks, Stan!

    I’m glad to hear you’re having success.

    Keep at it and let us know how you progress.

  9. jeff bartlett says:

    This swing has really worked for me. From scoring an average of 85 per round to an average of 77 in my last ten rounds.

    Just need to sort out the putter and who knows maybe breaking 70 will follow.

  10. Double Eagle says:

    I’d say an 8 stroke improvement is pretty good, Jeff.

    Another success story!

  11. Adam says:

    After struggling with my swing the last 2 months (13 handicap), I re-read your article prior to hitting the range. I hit all but about 4 balls of a large bucket very straight. The next day I went to my home course where I hit 10 of 15 fairways (only one poor drive and 4 very much in play). I also hit my irons so straight. The only reason I did not score well was I just could not chip and putt today, but what a relief to have full confidence on the tee box and with my irons. Except for 3 shots which I topped, I think I hit every ball perfectly straight.

    The only 2 shots I struggled with was an up hill and down hill lie. I am not sure if I need to change anything, or just practice it a bit.

    I feel like I now know how I will get to a single digit handicap….very soon too.

  12. Double Eagle says:

    That’s tremendous, Adam!

    Ten fairways out of 15 is about 67%, which would put you in the mix on the PGA Tour in fairway %. Now, I know it’s just one round, but if you can keep that up, then you’re a lock for a single digit handicap *IF* you start paying attention to your short game.

    I know it’s exciting right now and you’ll be tempted to keep banging away with the full swing. When you feel comfortable with it, really look at spending serious time working on short game and you’ll see huge improvement.

    Confidence is a thing of beauty, isn’t it?

  13. Ron Witherspoon says:

    I have been using S/T since the end of the season in a dome (snow in Buffalo, NY!) with absolutely great results. I used to shy away from my irons as i always hit them with a level or ascending blow. Now i hit them so well I bought new irons and hitting 5 iron – pw with great consistency and trajectory. To my surprise I am really hitting my woods extremely well! I can feel and hear a “pinch” at impact which rockets the ball straight and high. Hybrids too from 2 iron to 6 iron are straight and true from the pinch. The driver needs some work as I feel i am using the stack part, and not as much tilt on staying on top of the ball. Its a new driver with a longer shaft then i have been hitting and i’m sure thats part of it. I am sold on S/T and cant wait to take it to the course and hit some GIRs with jmy new irons!! What a godsend!!

  14. Double Eagle says:

    Good to hear that you’re having so much success Ron. I’m interested to hear what happens when you get out on the course in the spring.

  15. Patrick says:

    Started fiddling with the S&T late last season but am now seriously working on it. A couple of observations. First, many have observed that it is a body rotational swing more than an arm and wrist swing. While I agree in that keeping one’s arms on your chest give the sensation of more of a body swing I find that it makes me “stuck” a bit. Especially with the driver I find that if I combine a good hard swing with the rotaion (have to time it)I hit some long, high and straight blasts. Second, the developers of the swing promote a rather severe lateral shift to the left on the downswing which helps “flatten” out the swing. Wouldn’t this indicate that S&T is not actually a one plane swing? What do you golf nuts think?

  16. Double Eagle says:

    Patrick,

    The Stack and Tilt can be a one plane swing, but it differs in many ways from Jim Hardy’s One-Plane Swing concept.

    One similarity the two share is the idea of being “stacked”, referring to keeping the weight fairly centered throughout the swing.

    But the Stack and Tilt doesn’t necessarily require the player to have the shoulders, left arm, and club in the same plane at the top of the back swing. Some players do, but some don’t. I believe someone pointed out in a comment recently (on another post) that Will MacKenzie doesn’t swing on a single plane.

    Also, as you pointed out, the lateral shift with the Stack and Tilt is different than Hardy’s one plane swing.

    So while the S&T is not the same as the Hardy swing, it can still be executed on one plane.

  17. Pete says:

    I have always been a decent golfer, but struggled with a slice most of the time and could never really trust my swing. I’m tall and had a problem getting my weight on my left side during the swing follow-thru. Anyway, read about the S&T swing in golf digest, also viewed some Utube swing sequences of Aaron Baddeley and thought I’d give it a try. I just practiced going thru the motions and swinging without any ball and feels like I’m taking a 3/4 swing.
    For me the swing has worked out perfect. Now I’m getting thru the swing with my weight on my left side which gives my ball flight a lower and penetrating draw. In 2007 I was able to shoot my best score ever, a 60 and it seemed so effortless. It has improved my whole game and I would recommend this new S&T swing to anyone.

    A comment on the WGC-Match Play Championship.
    Aaron Baddeley matched Tiger Woods shot for shot and had upset in his grasp had he been able to sink a putt. I think Baddeley will keep getting better and be a real threat to Tiger, given more time to fully master this unique swing.

  18. Patrick says:

    Pete,

    Just read your post and my question is, what were you shooting before that 60? If you were anywhere close to that type of number I’m surprised you would have tinkered with such a radical swing change like the S&T. Anyway, congratulations!!!

    I am still at the neophyte stage of this swing. Just played my third round of the year and am feeling more confident with it. Two things I am noticing that seem to contradict many others’experience are my distance and ball flight. I am hitting it farther than ever (coming up on my 48th b-day) and higher than ever.This swing seems to allow me to manipulate the clubface more than ever which may explain both. One thing I do seem to have in common is my back doesn’t ache after a round like it used to. A work in progress.

  19. Double Eagle says:

    I continue to be amazed. Thanks for sharing the experiences, guys.

  20. Pete says:

    My scoring average up to the middle of 2007 was 75 before the S&T swing change. I just could never trust the old traditional swing and that was always was in the back of my mind.

    This new ball flight for me is lower and longer with a slight draw. I’m swinging a standard length stiff shaft driver with an 8.5 face. I also have a 9.5 driver for a somewhat higher trajectory. My long irons are crisper with a more boring trajectory, short irons are tight. I’m telling you, this swing has changed my game around, I just can’t believe it happened so quickly.

    I love watching Baddeley’s swing in slo-mo and how he pinches the ball.
    Hey, I’ve only been at this for a year and believe there another 60 in me…somewhere?
    Just remember to crush the can!

  21. Patrick says:

    I can tell I’m new to this swing because I had already forgotten the crucial element of “crushing the can”. So thanks for the reminder. I took that thought to the range today and hit six iron after six iron about 190 yds(I’m at elevation)and I swear they all landed within five feet from each other with perfect trajectory. I love the balance and on top of the ball feeling.

    I totally agree about Baddely’s move. It looks effortless, but not in a Couples or Els kind of way. He will win a major soon.

  22. Pete says:

    I will be watching to see how well the pro stack & tilters do this week at the Doral Tournament.

    Here’s another swing thought to help master this swing. If your right handed keep your right elbow close to your side on the back & down swing. The right hand and shoulder start down together, caused by the crush the can move. Watch the rear view of Aaron Baddeleys swing on Utube bizhub from the start of the downswing. Centrifigal force takes over to complete the swing. That’s it, just a simple move.

    To me Baddeley’s swing tempo seems quicker but more efficient with the shorter backswing, than Els or Couples. Also, I think your right, the S&T is much easier on the back.

  23. Ranger19 says:

    Just started experimenting with the S & T and found your website invaluable.

    My question revolves around the “crush the can” concept. The photos in the GD article show the ball of the foot crushing down on the can. Yet in the actual swing your left heel is off the ground. Am I missing something?

    How about another image or thought for the transition to get the hips moving forward and to stand up straight at impact.

    Thanks.

  24. Double Eagle says:

    Hi Ranger. Glad you found the website useful.

    Regarding the issue about crushing the can, if you’re right-handed, your left heel shouldn’t be off the ground once the downswing starts. I think it’s probably OK if it comes up a little bit in the back swing. Once the down swing starts, though, it should be planted flat on the ground.

    The feeling I had when I was trying out the swing was that of stomping my foot in to the turf (not lifting it up and then stomping, but just as if I was trying to push my foot down into into the turf).

    Have a look at the images of Aaron Baddeley from the original article here. You can see that as the downswing starts, his left knee is flexed, but his foot is flat on the ground. As the swing progresses, his left leg straightens quickly and his hips thrust upward and become level. In all three images there, you can see his left foot squarely on the turf.

    An alternative mental image you can use is quickly straightening your left leg as you swing down through the ball (while making sure to thrust your pelvis upward).

    I hope that helps. Feel free to stop back and let everyone know how you make out.

  25. Patrick says:

    I took the S&T to the University of New Mexico Championship Course yesterday (host of this years NCAA Women’s championship in May). They have it in unbelievably good shape and with a 20 m.p.h wind it had teeth. Since I seem to be so early on in my S&T development, I find early in rounds I have trouble trusting this new swing and consequently don’t execute it as described. But after about three holes I start doing it correctly and the results are so good that I only wish I’d known of it twenty years ago. The “rotational” feel of the swing is becoming ingrained and it appears to produce really good club-head speed. Currently my thougt is centered on the pelvic thrust aspect on the through swing. Another big test comes Saturday at Pa-Ko Ridge.

  26. Pete says:

    On the weight shift and crush the can move. In my swing it feels like the weight goes to the right heel on the back swing. On the forward swing the weight goes to the left heel. It’s a very simple swing, with no lifting of the foot until after the ball is hit.

  27. Ranger19 says:

    Just returned from a four day trip to Florida where I was able to put the S & T into operational mode.

    The results were far better than I had hoped for. I have always been a straight hitter off the tee. Not long but I hit about 70% of my fairways. My problem is that I hit only 40% of the greens. Through a lot of work with my short game I have been able to lower my hndcp to a 5.

    My normal swing is laid off resulting in a lot of missed greens left or weak right. I am able to hit a lot of fairways because I use my hands to get the club square at impact.

    The S & T has allowed me to finally hit my irons with authority. The first day out I hit over 55% of the greens and shot a 77.

    Similar results the next two rounds. My driver and fairway woods remain about the same but clearly my iron play is where I needed improvement.

    On my last day I ended up losing the swing a bit. Unless you are a pro, after four straight rounds the swing begins to fray at the edges. I began missing my irons left and then compensated by blocking them right.

    When I got home I re-read your site and the Golf Digest articles and quickly realized that I was not straightening out my right leg and was thereby just whipping the club around waist thus leading to hooks or blocks.

    Still working on the concept of “crushing the can” but your suggestion about straightening the left leg quickly makes sense.
    My only problem is I feel that I am already on my left side so how would I push down on the can. Again, maybe you can help me through that process.

    I have never been more encouraged about starting the golf season than I am now. I intend to really commit to the S & T for the next month to see if it can continue to improve my iron play.

    Your site has been very helpful.

  28. Double Eagle says:

    Nice to see you making real progress, Ranger. I’m glad I’ve been able to help in a small way.

    As far as the left leg and “can crushing” move, I think the following section of the Golf Digest article is key for you. I know you’ve read it multiple times, but it’s worth keeping in mind:

    ——-
    “The turning body is supplying the initial acceleration, so the player must maximize rotational speed. The hips have limited turning capacity when they’re tilted, so they have to come out of their tilt to keep accelerating. The move that releases the hips is a springing up of the lower body, where the butt muscles push the hips upward and toward the target. The player has to feel as if he’s jumping up as the club comes down.

    As you start down, imagine you’re crushing a soda can under your left foot. The body has stayed centered on the backswing, so there’s no need to shift back to the ball. This downward pressure on the left foot sets up the upward thrust of the hips through impact.”
    ——-

    The part in bold is important. The left leg straightening (or “can crushing” move) is a function of that springing up movement. That’s another great bit of imagery that you can use. You’re not just pressing your foot into the turf for the sake of doing that, you’re doing that so you can engage your butt muscles and propel your hips upward.

  29. David says:

    Hi guys,

    I was an early poster on your first post about S+T ( just after I had my first ever hole in one I think ) so just thought I’d let you know I still find it so easy to swing this way. Sunday I was only able to play 11 holes, very cold, course soaking wet after a downpour so absolutely not an inch of run even on full drives. Hit 8 greens of the first 9 in regulation ! Failed to hole a single birdie putt to the relief of my palying partners ( costs them 2 Euros per birdie ) but that’s another story. S+T still rocks !

  30. Double Eagle says:

    Thanks for giving us an update, David. It’s great to hear from more and more people who have tried the swing for some time and continue to have improved ball striking and consistency.

    Now, you just need to get your putting in order to convert some of those birdie chances. At 2 Euro each, you’re going to be making some nice money from your partners.

  31. Bob says:

    I have been working at this and have a couple of problems. One is the misses generally go left, I believe this may be caused by not being able to shorten the swing enough. The other is this swing seems to bother my left knee on occassion. Any advice?
    Thanks,
    Bob

  32. Double Eagle says:

    Bob, I don’t have any definitive advice to give you, so hopefully some of the other readers will be able to offer some thoughts.

    One thing that does come to mind with respect to the knee pain is perhaps a flexibility issue. How is your flexibility in your back and hips? Maybe some tightness is causing a little extra torque on your knee? If you think that might be the culprit, it may help to do some stretching to target those areas. In my sidebar, there are links to the Titleist Performance Institute, Mike Pedersen Golf, and Better Golf With Fitness, all great resources on golf fitness where you can find tons of stretches and exercises to target those areas.

    Hopefully someone out there has experience with shots missing left that can offer you some advice. Though, if you do have flexibility issues, that could cause a lot of problems.

    All this is speculation, of course, since I haven’t seen your swing. Feel free to go into more detail about your swing and flexibility if you’d like and maybe someone will have some ideas.

  33. Joseph says:

    Bob,
    my left knee bothers me too when I find that it caves in towards the ball on the backswing. If you have the same issue, try flaring your front foot more towards the target at setup. This will fold your front leg and point your knee more on a downward angle rather than towards the ball.

    If you notice the pics in the Golf Digest’s article, you will see P&B have a flared foot and the knee is not caved in on their backswing.

    Just a thought…

  34. Joseph says:

    Bob,
    One more thought…

    Pulling left? For me, I pull left on occasion because my rear shoulder tends to cheat and moves a little forward at setup because I put more weight on the front.

    Be sure you are “stacked” over the ball and shoulders squared at setup.

    Aloha

  35. Double Eagle says:

    Great thoughts, Joseph. Thanks for sharing them.

  36. Joseph says:

    Stack and Tilt has a new instructional DVD from P&B. Anyone have feedback on this? I am thinking of purchasing…

    thanks

    http://www.stackgolf.com/land01.php?sid=51985

  37. hanon says:

    Here is a link with some good keys to hit the driver:
    Click here.

  38. Jim Marlow says:

    I am a 66 year old 8 handicap golfer that changes swing thoughts as often as some people change their underwear. I am tired of that and think I have found what I need with the S&T.

    Golf lesson videos through the years show that I have two big swing faults. I raise my head on the backswing and left my hips sway towards the target on the downswing. The S&T easily corrects the head coming up since I feel like my head lowers towards the my left foot on the backswing and the shifting of my left hip towards the target is part of the S&T.

    I would like to get a little more distance off the tee with the S&T. (looks like it goes farther when you see it in the air). Maybe when I get my DVD’s that I ordered it will give me some ideas on getting the ball out there a little farther.

    The only other problem I encounter on an ongoing basis is trying to hit a 3 wood off the grass. Too often it pops up to the right.

    I have also noticed that one cannot get lazy or worn out as the round goes on because if you don’t get those hips thrusted properly and with energy you will leave the shot out to the right.

    But overall; I like the fact that I can take this swing to the course and it holds up better under pressure. I think it is because I only need to think about proper body movements and my arms and hands are just along for the ride.

  39. Double Eagle says:

    Interesting thoughts, Jim. Thanks for sharing them.

    You’re definitely right about getting worn out during a round. With the S&T, I can see it getting worse because of the necessity of a good pelvic thrust. Fatigue certainly hurts players with conventional swings, but I can see the problem with S&T. All the more reason for all of us to get in shape and stay that way!

    After you get the S&T DVDs and have a chance to watch them, I’d be interested in hearing your thoughts. There’s a lot of interest in the swing and players would love to know about them.

  40. Jim Marlow says:

    Well I just received my DVD’s (4) today and have viewed 2 of the 4. I was initially disappointed that I couldn’t get them to run on my laptop. I don’t know if that is a problem with what I am doing or if they were made in a format that only my DVD player would play.

    The video quality and production is not great but the quality of the instruction is very good. The first DVD covers the basics of the S&T and the fundamentals of a good golf swing. I thought the fundamentals part was going to be of value to beginning golfers but they have some interesting twists on what is really important.

    The second DVD I viewed covers what causes slices, hooks, tops and fat shots and then how to make the ball curve the way you want it.

    After viewing the the first two DVD’s I had to get out to the practice range and give some of what I heard and saw a try.
    I am not a pro yet but I am seeing some serious improvement.

    I will watch the last two DVD’s (The S&T in depth and the short game in the next couple of days. I will let you know how they work out. For $1 more a piece they sent a medicus 7 iron, 5 iron and driver. I am not sure how they fit in the S&T method but for $3 I couldn’t pass them up.

  41. MIKE says:

    Great resource. I had never even heard of the stack and tilt until a guy at the golf course asked me how long I had been doing it. I’ve had a lot of swing instruction in conventional swing hooked up to wires and vests, trying to get all the angles to match up with the pros and after a few lessons I would play pretty good until the wheels came off and I wouldn’t be able to hit the ball at all. My “default” swing that I would switch to, was one where my only thought was to stay on my left leg. I tend to get overactive in the lower body and have to flip at the ball to even get the clubhead on the ball. This “dead leg” swing as I think of it ensures consistent contact.

    I’m not sure that I am doing everything as advocated by the stack and tilt, but what a relief to find out that what I do naturally is not necessarily a give up swing, but might be a valid way to hit the ball.

  42. Double Eagle says:

    Jim, glad to see you’re making serious improvement. I can’t wait to hear how the other DVDs are.

    Mike, it’s very interesting to hear how you developed a natural stack and tilt. The human body is a wonderful thing. When given a repetitive task, it seems to find interesting ways to accomplish it efficiently. It’s as if you gave your body one parameter – the “dead left leg” and it figured out the rest intuitively over time.

  43. MIKE says:

    I played a lot of baseball, and I find it interesting to see the baseball swing used as an example of why the stack and tilt is NOT a good swing by some commenters saying that you wouldn’t hit a baseball without a weight transfer. In fact, I was taught to hit to contact off the lead leg with the trail leg almost completely un-weighted when the the swing happens. I find the concept of stack and tilt to be very baseball swing like.

  44. Double Eagle says:

    Interesting comparison to baseball, Mike. I haven’t given it much thought, having not played baseball since little league, but I think I understand what you mean. There is definitely something to the rotational power that the stack and tilt and other swings of that type can provide.

  45. Jim Marlow says:

    I reviewed the last two DVD’s today and all I can say is “Whew”. I am on sensory overload right now. The “in depth” DVD is just that. It goes into what the hips, legs, arms, hands and shaft do in the S&T system.

    I initially liked the S&T because it seemed simple for me to replicate. From reading the articles in Golf Digest I thought that as long as I got the body movements right the arms and hands just came along automatically for the ride. That is true to some extent for the basic movements and one could expect probably play ok with just that knowledge. But in my opinion if you wanted to get into the low single digits than the “in depth DVD” becomes important.

    A couple of suprises on that DVD are as follows. No where do they talk about the downswing beginning by pushing down on the right heel and then thrusting up the pelvis. They discuss the importance of pushing the hips continually left (not suddenly) on the downswing and at the same time pushing the hands away from the right shoulder. One of my swing faults is letting my head fall back to the right on my downswing. They advised that is caused by not letting the hands move away from the right shoulder on the downswing as the hips move left. Which, I guess, is why I tend to push many of my shots to the right with the S&T.

    I am disappointed that there wasn’t a section on drills to work on the individual components of the S&T. I thought I saw in their literature that it came on the DVD’s.

    All in all, I am glad to know more about the S&T and should slowly get better as Iwork on the various components.

    If anyone has any questions; I would be glad to answer them to the best of my ability.

  46. Double Eagle says:

    FYI to everyone – I received a press release from Medicus Golf about the widespread release of the Stack and Tilt DVD set. Apparently, it was in limited release before. I wrote a post about it here.

    I expect to do a review on the DVD set myself in the near future. In the meantime, anyone who has seen it is welcome to comment as Jim did.

  47. Robert Green says:

    Hi,

    I just stumbled upon this blog and ended up straight at this article. I’ve been wondering about the actual comparisons between the usual swing and the stack and tilt. As you say it is often very hard when watching the pro’s at work, as their is a very fine line between them. I must say, you have done a very good job comparing the two swings above, and I look forward to reading through the rest of your posts.

    Rob

  48. hanon says:

    Mike Bennett, one of the creators of this swing, directly relates the foundations of S&T. Enjoy it:

    Click here.

    This second video is dedicated to those saying that this swing doesn´t work without even trying it. The video looks perfect. Weight in the front foot and rotating the shoulders around the FIXED SPINE AXIS (keeping the same inclination). This is the key!!

    Click here.

  49. Double Eagle says:

    hanon, that Mike Bennett video is tremendous. Good amount of information from him about the basics of the swing and what’s going on.

    Thanks for sharing those.

  50. hanon says:

    I am cross-linking the three main forums about S&T, one of those is this one. They have more than 100 comments about S&T in each forum and they are still alive after one year with this swing. Therefore I think it could be useful to have all three links together:

    Geoff Shackelford

    The Sand Trap

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