More Stack and Tilt Golf Swing Analysis

Jun

2007

More Stack & Tilt Analysis

Posted by Double Eagle in Ball Striking Tips, Stack and Tilt

Stack and Tilt Golf Swing Videos by Medicus Golf

Stack and Tilt seems to be the hot golf concept right now. Since my original two articles, I continue to get a lot of traffic looking for information about Stack and Tilt. I’d like to look at it a little closer.

I’m not going to give a tutorial on the technique. I can’t do better than the original article at Golf Digest. What’s more interesting to me is the reaction I’ve gotten from people in person as well as what I’ve been reading all over the web. Many people seem to have a misconception about what’s going on in the swing.

Some people have looked at the photo sequence of Aaron Baddeley in Golf Digest and have trouble seeing the real difference between the Stack and Tilt and the typical modern swing. Some people claim that Baddely isn’t actually doing anything different except taking a shorter back swing.

So what I wanted to do is grab a video of Tiger Woods and a video of a Stack and Tilter and compare them. The Stack and Tilt guy in this case is Will MacKenzie. I actually used two clips of Tiger Woods because neither of them had everything I wanted to show. The first clip shows his address, while I used the second clip to show the top of the back swing and the impact position.

Let’s have a look.

This first image shows both players side by side at address. MacKenzie is on the left, Tiger is on the right:

Stack and Tilt and Conventional: Address Position

There are several big differences here. First, you can see how Tiger’s spine angle tilts much more to the right. In both cases, the player’s spine angle extends through the ball. But look how much further back MacKenzie is playing the ball. Also, notice the pronounced tilt in Tiger’s hips. MacKenzie’s are almost level.

Here are the two at the top of the back swing:

Stack and Tilt and Conventional: Top Position

Again, there are fairly significant differences. MacKenzie’s back swing is somewhat shorter. Here’s where we see the “Stack” in the Stack and Tilt. The center point of MacKenzie’s shoulders and hips are still in a line. Compare that with Tiger who is really on his right side there. His shoulders are centered over his right hip.

Another important distinction: I’ve heard people ask where the “tilt” is in the Stack and Tilt. The spine angle is tilted ever so slightly toward the target. Now, I admit, that looking at this photo, it looks like his spine is straight up. But imagine it this way: pretend you’re standing right behind MacKenzie in that photo and used one finger to touch the small of his back and the other finger to touch the spot right between his shoulder blades. The tip of the finger touching the spot between his shoulder blades would be a little closer to the target than the other finger. Try it for yourself (disclaimer: you should probably warn strangers before laying hands on them at the driving range. Saying, “Hey, I was checking you for Stack and Tilt” is a lame pick-up line).

(Update: After watching the instructional DVDs, I have learned that the above analysis is, in fact, not where the “tilt” comes from in the name Stack and Tilt. The left-tilt of the spine is not in relation to the target, but is in relation to the rest of the body. This is part of what allows the shoulders to turn in a circle instead of shifting laterally. Plummer and Bennett do a great job of explaining this in the DVDs.)

Finally, let’s look at the impact positions.

Stack and Tilt and Conventional: Impact Position

There are some very pronounced differences here. For instance, look how far behind the ball Tiger’s head is. MacKenzie is still almost right on top of the ball. Also, you can see that MacKenzie’s hips are still virtually level, while Tiger’s hip tilt has actually increased. MacKenzie’s left side is already straight and Tiger is still getting there. This is due to the can-crushing move with the left leg (see the Golf Digest article). That’s what allows him to get those hips thrusting upward, allowing him to shallow out his swing path to keep from smothering the ball.

It looks like MacKenzie is going to make impact with a slightly descending blow, while Tiger is level or slightly ascending. I don’t know how typical this is for the Stack and Tilt, or if it was a mistake. That could cost MacKenzie a little distance.

There you have it. I hope that clears up some of the misconceptions about the Stack and Tilt versus the modern golf swing. Keep in mind that when you watch Tour pros play, they have such incredible grace and tempo that their swings can look very similar, especially when the finish positions might be fairly close. But when you look at the detail, the differences become much more clear.

——————————————–
Further Reading:

Stack and Tilt Instructional DVD Set (Life in the Rough)
Golf Digest Revisits the Stack and Tilt (Life in the Rough)
Stack and Tilt: A Follow Up (Life in the Rough)
The Stack and Tilt? (Life in the Rough)
The New Tour Swing (Golf Digest, June 2007)
Stack and Tilt Part 2 (Golf Digest, September 2007)
Stack and Tilt Critics Speak Out (Golf Digest, September 2007)

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There are currently 137 responses to “More Stack & Tilt Analysis”

1
Stack & Tilt: A Follow-up » Life in the Rough said:

[...] Since this post was written, I have written another Stack and Tilt post where I do some analysis and compare it with the modern [...]

Posted on June 24th, 2007 at 8:34 pm
2
Tiger swing said:

Nice post. Havent seen your blog before but been doing some reading on the S&T lately and came across your post.

Another nice article on the swing that I found

http://www.articlegold.com/Article/Understanding-the–Stack-and-Tilt–Golf-Swing/5359

Anyways, bookmarked and will swing by when I have time.

Posted on June 27th, 2007 at 10:41 am
3
Double Eagle said:

Welcome Tiger! Glad you enjoyed the post.

I’ve actually read that article by Rick Hendershot. It’s a nice look at the Stack and Tilt. I like his point about the pelvic thrust. I emphasized that move when I tried the swing out for myself and I could really tell the difference when I got it right. I think my attention to that was one reason that I was able to pick it up fairly quickly. With a proper set up and attention to that move, much of the work is done.

Posted on June 27th, 2007 at 11:05 am
4
Jay Strauss said:

do you recommend this swing for seniors?–I’m a 14+, not all that flexible (never was), but in great shape otherwise–can I get lessons in the San Francisco Bay Area (Marin county is best)?

Posted on June 27th, 2007 at 3:27 pm
5
Double Eagle said:

Thanks for coming by, Jay!

Unfortunately, I don’t feel I have enough expertise to say whether this swing is a good fit for senior players. My goal is to become a pro, but I’m not there yet. I’d really hate to steer you wrong and possibly upset your golf game or physical well-being.

I do feel that the stack and tilt relies on a forceful upward thrust of the pelvis as well as speedy hip rotatation. If you feel that you can accomplish those things, then you have to decide whether it’s worth giving it a try.

That said, I think your idea about getting lessons is a good one. I can’t say I know any pros in the San Francisco area, but a good place to check would be any local golf courses or golf schools. Another good resource is the internet, of course. The PGA of America website can help you find a local pro. Check out http://www.pga.com/improve/index.cfm

It would be best to find someone that’s versed in the Stack and Tilt, but that might be tough since it seems to be in the early stages of popularity. Either way, a good pro will be able to understand what you want and help you to see what’s best for you.

Good luck to you. Stop back and let us know how you make out.

Mike

Posted on June 27th, 2007 at 5:51 pm
6
Ed Williams said:

Great article. I have been experimenting the last couple of weeks w/ the Stack and Tilt and I am hitting my irons the best that I ever have. I do need some help w/ my driver though, while everything else is better, I’m having a hard time getting off the tee.
Any advice for the driver ?

Thanks,
Ed

Posted on July 5th, 2007 at 9:23 am
7
Double Eagle said:

Ed, what kind of trouble are you having with the driver?

My experience with the Stack and Tilt is somewhat limited, but I could see a couple of spots that might give you trouble with the driver.

First, we have a natural tendency to really get behind the ball with the driver with the conventional swing. If you’re shifting to the right some and lose your “stack” that could cause problems. Have trust that the swing will work and stay stacked with the center points of your shoulders and hips over top of each other.

The second potential problem I could see is that you might top the ball if your swing path isn’t shallowing out enough, causing you to smother the ball. If that’s happening, you might want to make sure you’re really getting enough of that upward pelvis thrust by straightening your left leg quickly (like you’re crushing a can under your left foot). Also, be sure you’re getting enough rotational speed in your hips. So, crush that can, spin that left pocket around to the left, and feel that pelvis thrusting upward. (That all assumes you’re a right hander. Reverse for lefties)

Posted on July 5th, 2007 at 12:40 pm
8
Ed Williams said:

Thanks for the feedback.

I actually took a few swings on video today, and I believe its the hips.
Suprisingly, staying stacked comes easy for me, but my left hip is not getting out of the way, causing me to come over the top just a little. My bad tee balls are either high slices or pull hooks.

Does that make sense ?

Thanks,
Ed

Posted on July 6th, 2007 at 12:54 am
9
Double Eagle said:

Ed, I believe that makes sense.

With the Stack and Tilt, because the weight is more to the left (if you’re right handed), the tendency is to make a much more descending blow. That’s great for the irons, not so much for the driver. With the driver, the move with the hips and pelvis is much more critical.

If your left hip isn’t getting cleared enough, then there’s a good chance your arms and shoulders are outracing your torso, and causing you to get over the top, as you observed.

That, combined with the descending blow would cause a high slice, except when you manage to flip your club face closed, where you’ll get a pull hook.

Next time you’re on the range, really concentrate on the can-crushing move with your forward leg and also on turning that forward pocket away for good rotation. It’s probably just something that will just change slowly. Be patient and it will come.

Mike

Posted on July 6th, 2007 at 7:53 am
10
Causes of an Over the Top Swing » Life in the Rough said:

[...] is also known as the reverse pivot. This might be all right for the Stack and Tilt swing, but it’s a killer for the conventional swing. To keep from topping the ball, your weight has [...]

Posted on July 11th, 2007 at 8:30 am
11
Milo said:

I have been teaching a for several years. After reading about the Stack and Tilt, I deciding I would try to teach this swing to a couple of students. These students have always had trouble with transfering the weight from right to left. After one lesson, both lessons hit the ball more solid and more consistant. They both said that it felt so easy to make contact with the ball. For the first time they had confidence about hitting the ball every time. I recommend this to all who struggle with there own golf swing.

Thanks,

Milo

Posted on July 24th, 2007 at 3:27 pm
12
Jeff said:

I’m still a beginner and I decided to try the S&T because I wanted to have a single-plane swing style. To my surprise I had great success within minutes on the range. I was hitting the center of the face more frequently than before, and my trajectory had more zip. Plus I could swing (turn through) harder without getting out of sync. I am very comfortable using these techniques.

I want to know what setup adjustments I will need to make for imperfect lies i.e. downhill and ball-below-feet.

Also, does the S&T work for short pitches and bunker shots?

Posted on July 26th, 2007 at 11:51 am
13
Double Eagle said:

Welcome, Jeff!

You make an excellent point about being able to turn harder. I didn’t really put it together until you mentioned it, but I definitely agree that I could turn harder without getting out of sync. That could be why people are seeing increased distance.

I can’t say I’m sure about adjustments to the lie. My guess would be that the adjustments would be similar to those in the conventional swing. Maybe someone who had tried it from those lies can speak up and let us know.

Finally, regarding short pitches and bunker shots, I also haven’t tried the swing in those situations, but my feelings tell me that the stack and tilt is unnecessary in those situations. The stack and tilt helps with the weight transfer needed for the traditional swing that leads to inconsistency. That weight transfer is virtually non-existent in short game finesse shots. At least in the sense of turning over the right hip and getting weight onto the right side in the back swing.

For the short game, I recommend Dave Pelz’s Short Game Bible. He teaches a swing for the short game that’s very different from the full swing. I don’t buy into the fact that a pitch is just a small full swing, so I’m a big Pelz fan.

Posted on July 26th, 2007 at 12:27 pm
14
jack dabulis said:

I have practiced the
t&S method,and I agree that when your timing is correct the ball explodes off the clubface. Also, ball stays on line.

The major problem I experience with this method is shanking the ball. I think I am moving my head causing the club face to open up. I am curious if anyone else had the same problem.

If I can solve and figure out how to avoid this shanking problem, I would recommend this swing highly to anyone who lacks consistancy like I do. Jack Dabulis
If

Posted on July 28th, 2007 at 2:26 am
15
Double Eagle said:

Jack,

Shanking is rarely caused from an open club face. Though your head may be moving, likely your whole upper body is getting closer to the ball at impact. Your head just follows along.

I did a post about the shanks a while back with a few techniques to solve the problem. You can read it here:
http://www.lifeintherough.com/2007/05/21/the-shanks/

Good luck!

Posted on July 28th, 2007 at 10:09 am
16
Jeff said:

I have only been practicing the S&T for a week so I still have some mis-hits both fat and thin. I think this is because the old habits of the conventional swing creep in when I’m not fully focused.

I think there are a few things to remember. For one, there is still such a thing as over-swing meaning that if you swing to hard and get off balance, you are likely to top or shank the ball. Also, clearing out the hips too fast causes me to release the club early (casting) and hit it fat. Remember, your hips have to be fairly square and level half way down. You can’t just spin out and expect to flush it.

Finally, the thing that took a while to get is that in the S&T I am centered on the ball throughout the swing, so there is no need to shift toward the target on the downswing. It is very hard to break that habit but I have gotten better at turning through right where I am centered.

Double Eagle, I thought about what you said regarding the short pitches and bunker shots. I agree that pitches are not just small swings and I also agree that there is no need to transfer weight for these finesse shots. That’s exactly why I figured the S&T would be ideal. The Stack and Tilt is designed to control where the club strikes the ground by keeping your body centered back and through, taking the weight transfer and lateral shifting out of the equation.

So I tried using the techniques of the S&T in my short pitches and I have to say I was remarkably more consistant in striking the ball and in controlling my distances. I think you should give it a try before you decide one way or the other.

Jeff in S.A. TX

Posted on July 30th, 2007 at 1:24 pm
17
Double Eagle said:

Thanks for the update, Jeff!

Interesting thoughts and observations especially regarding the pitch shots. You make a good point about how pitches and the Stack and Tilt are related.

Do you feel like distance control is there with the pitches? I’m just thinking about my brief experimentation with the stack and tilt and the quick hip motion and can-crushing motion that make it work. I’m wondering if those kind of moves tend to add power when it’s not really desired as with short pitches. Or is it that those moves are still there but just happen at a slower speed?

Glad you gave it a try and reported back. If you don’t mind, I’d love to hear more updates as time goes on.

-Mike

Posted on July 30th, 2007 at 1:55 pm
18
Jeff said:

Mike,

You are exactly right… the stomping the can motion is not necessary. Let me try to explain how I make it work for me. Remember I’m still a beginner and definitely not a teacher.

I think I still set up fairly traditionally for my pitches. I open my stance and I also open the clubface in my left grip. I stack my hips and shoulders over the ball, but I set my knees toward my target and put most of my weight (maybe 70-30) on my front foot. So the way I see it, I have already crushed the can at address. Does that make any sense? I try to keep my weight forward with a stable lower body on the backswing.

The main things I use from the S&T in my pitches are a vertical (stacked) spine at address, the tilting left toward the target on the backswing and swinging my hands on a circular arc around my ribcage. I don’t try to generate any power on the swing, I just concentrate on making a smooth turn with my hips and shoulders while staying centered over the ball.

My confidence is soaring high right now because I feel like I can hit the center of the clubface every time, even on high flop shots. Same thing goes from the bunker, only I have to set my center behind the ball several inches. It’s like I’m rotating around the spot where I want the club to enter the sand.

That reminds me… I had trouble making the S&T work on my long irons, woods, and driver. I came up with a way to produce desirable results and a repeatable swing.

See, with the ball forward in the stance, it makes you want to shift left (for righties) on the downswing. You don’t want any shifting in the S&T, so it’s almost like you have to hang-back a bit to square the face. I try set the axis of my rotation around the center of my stance (maybe slightly forward of center) as opposed to rotating around the ball.

‘Til next time…

Jeff in S.A. TX

Posted on July 31st, 2007 at 9:21 am
19
Double Eagle said:

Great information, Jeff.

I see what you’re saying about feeling like you already crushed the can at address, but I’m not sure that’s what’s going on (maybe it is…you can tell me). In the full swing, the can crushing move helps to straighten the left leg, keeping the hips level and shallowing out the swing arc. It sounds more like you’re just setting up with your weight left, not so much with a straight left leg.

With much of your weight to the left, you’re ensuring a nice descending blow giving you crisp contact. Perhaps the can crushing move just isn’t necessary for delicate shots.

I also love your point about bunker shots. Many players have trouble trying to be consistent in the bunker because of weight transfer and a shafting point of entry in the sand. It seems like you took out all the guesswork and gave yourself excellent consistency.

Posted on July 31st, 2007 at 11:07 am
20
Jeff said:

Okay Mike,

I see what you’re getting at on the finesse shots. Actually, I do straighten the right leg going back while tilting, and then I straighten the left leg going down. Like I said I am not trying to generate power with this move, I’m just trying to make a smooth turn. It probably does help to shallow out the swing, but my reasoning for straightening the left leg while turning through is to compensate for my hip rotation. What I mean is that the right hip turns higher going back (right leg straightens, left leg flexes), and the left hip turns higher going through (left leg straightens, right leg flexes). This helps to keep my waist and shoulders turning on parallel planes, keeping the spine straight and stacked.

Posted on July 31st, 2007 at 1:07 pm
21
Double Eagle said:

I see what you’re saying, Jeff. Very interesting.

I’m learning so much from all the comments. Keep them coming!

Posted on July 31st, 2007 at 1:32 pm
22
Jeff said:

I just want to add a couple of thoughts…

First of all, I have some serious lower back problems. I have a bulging disk that bothers me from time to time and causes my lower back to spasm and tense up. Before I switched to the Stack & Tilt, I had major back pain from my spine compressing and stretching while twisting in my swing. The pain would last for days even after plenty of rest, stretching, heat therapy etc.

Now that I have been practicing the S&T, my back feels absolutely great. I practiced Sunday, Monday and Tuesday for more than 3 hrs each day taking mostly full swings trying to get used to the new techniques. Remarkably, I have no soreness or tension today. It is amazing. I have no doubt that the S&T would be ideal for anyone who has back problems. It keeps your spine straight throughout the entire swing and eliminates all compressing and stretching.

However, I would not recommend the Stack & Tilt for anyone with knee or hip problems. Since the spinal column stays straight, the knees and hips must do all the compressing and stretcing to compensate. There is significantly more stress on these joints, particularly the left knee.

Also, I have been able to hit my longer irons much better than ever before. I practiced with my 4 iron for about an hour yesterday, both off the tee and off the deck. I was hitting them high and straight with the occasional draw. For me that is remarkable.

I am completely sold on the Stack and Tilt and I feel like I have improved exponentially in the two weeks I have been practicing it. My only concern is that because the swing is so revolutionary and new, there isn’t a whole lot of info out there from golf pros regarding these techniques. So basically I’m on my own in trying to develop a consistent, repeatable swing.

Posted on August 1st, 2007 at 1:34 pm
23
Double Eagle said:

That’s fascinating information Jeff. I have a herniated disk as well, so this is something I’ve really been wondering.

I’ll be interested to hear if you’re able to maintain the Stack and Tilt as time goes on.

As you said, there’s just not much information out there about the swing so you’re kind of blazing the trail. Information like this from you and from others will help build knowledge about the swing that other players will take great value from.

-Mike

Posted on August 1st, 2007 at 5:17 pm
24
Tiger Swing said:

Thx Jeff, great info

Posted on August 2nd, 2007 at 1:10 am
25
Jeff said:

OPEN THE CLUBFACE

I think it’s important to take a neutral to weak grip when you practice this swing. A grip that is too strong will have terrible effects on the strike.

I believe that the extreme inside-out hand path promotes a draw, even with a weak grip. However, with a strong grip, the angular momentum of the club wants to slam the face shut during descent. This leads to smothered shots, low hooks, shanks off the toe and fat shots due to digging the toe.

It feels strange right now, but using a weaker grip is giving me fantastic results. My divots are level and square at the point of impact, I’m getting a really soft feel when I strike the ball, and the trajectory is unbelievable.

Jeff in S.A. TX

Posted on August 2nd, 2007 at 10:02 am
26
Double Eagle said:

Great tip, Jeff.

How are your scores looking since you took up the stack and tilt? From what I’m reading, you’ve solved a lot of the problems a new player takes a long time to solve. Ball striking that solid is a seriously good thing.

Posted on August 2nd, 2007 at 10:10 am
27
Jeff said:

Mike,

I have not been on the course since my swing changes. I wanted to give myself at least a month before I went into battle with my new weapon. I have been playing for about 20 months and my lowest score is 82 with an average of about 90.

Let me say that I had a very decent swing before I switched over. I did not suffer from many of the common swing faults that plague most newbies. I work very hard at my game, I understand the fundamental elements of a good swing, I learn quickly and I have good body control.

My main reason for switching was that I was uncomfortable keeping the club on-plane going back. Some days were good and other days I couldn’t get the club above my waist without feeling completely off plane. I wanted to develop a swing in which my arms and hands moved the same way around my body regardless of the club.

I’m sure the new swing will get me around the course better and have me playing from the short grass, but I don’t expect scores to change until my distance control and short game improve. I really need to spend more time on the putting green.

Jeff in S.A. TX

Posted on August 2nd, 2007 at 1:02 pm
28
Double Eagle said:

My suspicion is that once you get back onto the course, your distance control will be fine. The consistent ball striking that you’re seeing will ensure that.

Many times when players miss, it’s because of the quality of the strike. If you hitting center face most of the time, you’ll have distances down right away.

Having a good understanding of the wind is important too, but you probably already have that. It’ll just be a matter of feeling out how your new ball flight reacts, but you’re already doing that on the range.

You’re right about spending more time on the putting green. Having such a rapid positive transformation can make it tough to work on other parts of your game because it’s so much fun to hit full shots.

As Ben Hogan said in his book “Power Golf”, par for a course allows for 36 putts per round. That’s 50% of the total strokes. You can make up for a less than perfect iron or wedge shot with a good putt, but you can never make up for a bad putt.

Posted on August 2nd, 2007 at 1:21 pm
29
Jeff said:

I hope you’re right about my distance control. The only thing is, my distance has increased so I’m not even sure what yardages to expect. I have to recalibrate or something.

Also, it seems like the balls I use on the course go about 15-25 yards further than a range ball depending on the club. Does that sound reasonable?

I do understand how the wind affects the flight, but sometimes I forget to account for it. My inexperience causes me much more trouble than my skill level. I mean I feel like I have the tools to par or birdie every hole, but the details get me. Whether it’s the lie, wind or other conditions, I seem to overlook the fine points sometimes.

Posted on August 3rd, 2007 at 1:50 pm
30
Double Eagle said:

Don’t worry, Jeff. You’ll have to recalibrate, but it should be relatively quick. After your first several approaches you should have a feel for how your new distances compare to your old one. Then you’ll just make a conscious adjustment of clubbing down the right amount. Even if your first couple rounds are not great, it’ll be in a good way and you’ll adjust.

You’re right about range balls. It kind of varies, but it’s difficult to calibrate distances with them. Some ranges buy balls that are made to fly a little shorter. Sometimes it’s fairly close to premium balls, sometimes not. Also, they tend to get worn and the dimples don’t work as hard as they used to.

From what I understand, living in Texas, you’re getting a PhD in wind play. That’ll come over time. It might take a bit, but you’ll get a feel for the proper adjustments.

Also, you mention forgetting the finer points and details. It sounds to me like you’re in fine shape for a beginner, and that you do have the tools to score well. Consider doing some study into the mental game. It’s not that I think you have a problem in that area, but it seems like many beginning players let themselves over think a lot, and I wouldn’t want to see you start to get overwhelmed with the details. Cluttering your thoughts with swing details can kill a round.

I recommend “Golf is not a Game of Perfect”. I did a review of it in the last week or so if you’re interested. It has had a real effect on my own game.

Posted on August 3rd, 2007 at 5:16 pm
31
dana said:

You need a stronger grip!Not too strong, just 45 degrees with the left hand.

Posted on August 5th, 2007 at 4:32 am
32
Jeff said:

Hey Dana,

That’s great if it works for you. However, the original article in GD specifies a neutral grip for this swing. 45 degrees sounds excessive, so if you need such a strong grip to make the shot fly straight, then you are not executing the Stack and Tilt properly.

I only recommended a weaker grip because I know many amateurs use a strong grip to compensate for other swing faults such as coming over the top. I just wanted people to know where to look if they ran into particular problems like digging the club or pulling low hooks. Dana, maybe you already used a weak grip before so there is no big change necessary for you. However, there are many people who have used a strong grip all their life. Weakening the the grip will feel strange to these folks, but will be necessary to get positive results.

Double Eagle,

I didn’t think I was ready, but my brother dragged me out on the course this past weekend. All of your predictions were true. By the third hole I was taking one less club. I hit more greens than ever and gave myself plenty of birdie opportunities. And as you said, catching the center of the clubface makes all the difference in the world. Other than a couple of bad breaks and one bonehead error, I played the round of my life to date.

Yes, I absolutely agree that I should focus on the mental aspect of the game. I don’t think I have a problem there either, but a good mental approach will only make me better. I am not a golfer but rather a competitor who is learning to golf.

Jeff in S.A. TX

Posted on August 6th, 2007 at 9:06 am
33
Double Eagle said:

Glad to hear that, Jeff! Your description of yourself as a competitor who is learning to golf is interesting. I think we’re very similar.

There you have it, everyone. A stack and tilt success story.

FYI, Golf Digest ran another stack and tilt article in this month’s issue (September 2007; it just arrived at my door two days ago). There’s more information from Bennett and Plummer about the swing, including some criticisms from other instructors and rebuttals from them.

Posted on August 6th, 2007 at 10:17 am
34
dana said:

Stronger is better sorry Mike and Andy are friends of mine. Weak would work it just makes you use the clubface to square up more.

Posted on August 6th, 2007 at 10:58 am
35
Jeff said:

Good Dana,

Since you are all such chums, please ask Mike and Andy why Golf Digest said neutral grip when they really meant 45 degrees closed.

Posted on August 6th, 2007 at 2:32 pm
36
Double Eagle said:

Dana, the Golf Digest article does mention a neutral grip. I know there’s some controversy over the Baddeley photos (as to whether that’s what he actually does when swinging for real), but his grip seems pretty neutral to me there.

Is the stronger grip a customization that you’re teaching to solve a problem? Or is it just a preference that you have?

Posted on August 6th, 2007 at 3:05 pm
37
dana said:

A weaker grip would make many golfers hook the ball. However there are ways around it. The pictures in GD were not edited. But the feeling is very close. Look in the new GD at Mike’s grip that would be a good model to follow. The problem with most golfers when they swing is they don’t get to impact with enough lean of the shaft and pivot. Even with the Driver.If you look under the TGM book for the HIP Bump Hula ect.. you will find a axis tilt at impact do to the hips moving forward on the downswing.As long as there is no slow down of rotaion you will have an easy time getting Lean.

When a new player is working on a draw keep in mind the target line. Make sure that the ball starts right of it. Put a dowel or a Tee in front of the ball about six to ten feet out and see the ball going on the right side of it.(you will be aiming your body left of it)Remember golf is played in an ARC the ball wants to curve to some degree.

May the course be with you!

Posted on August 6th, 2007 at 3:29 pm
38
Mark in KY said:

I literally read the Golf Digest article, got out of the car and 20 balls on the button. Then went out and birdied the first hole I played. I think this swing is a dream iron swing, but takes some getting used to with the driver. You must do everything right with the driver, especially “crushing the can” and having your weight distributed correctly. Also, you have to keep your head “on the ball” with the driver. In some ways the S&T is inverse in difficulty to the tradional swing in that the long irons are easier to hit than a driver-for me anyway. Keep the driver tips coming, and a list of local teaching pros/schools would be helpful.

Posted on August 6th, 2007 at 7:36 pm
39
Double Eagle said:

Glad to hear about your success, Mark.

You bring up a great point about a list of schools. It would be good to keep a list of Stack and Tilt resources. The swing is still kind of new (in the sense that it’s getting out to the mainstream now), but I’ll see what I can track down and start putting a page together. If anyone knows of any stack and tilt schools or teachers, shoot me an e-mail.

Posted on August 6th, 2007 at 8:16 pm
40
Jeff said:

Dana, that’s a great point about the hip rotation and shaft angle at impact. Thanks!

I would also like to see more info about how to use this swing with the driver.

Jeff in S.A. TX

Posted on August 8th, 2007 at 11:38 am
41
Double Eagle said:

Jeff, check out my post from today. Golf Digest did a stack and tilt follow-up this month which included tips on hitting the driver.

Posted on August 8th, 2007 at 12:35 pm
42
Vic said:

I am a 10 handicapper and have a conventional swing, loading into the right side and struggle with pulls, hooks, and fat shots with the mid and short irons. It never made sense why I hit my driver and fairway woods and long irons consistently clean but tend to overcook the irons until now. For my “conventional swing” the shallower approach of the club is great for the driver and long shots, but tends to cause toe digs or closed club face, or a combination of both on shorter clubs. I tried the S&T with a small bucket and 7 and 5 irons and did not hit one fat shot. In fact to my amazement I actually pushed a few dead right. Amazing because I generally have to aim right to pull and draw an iron to the target. I am going to keep my long shot swing for the long shots and work on the S&T for short and mid irons. I really don’t see any problem using both swings. I always used a form of S&T with pitches, wedge approach shots anyway. It just never dawned on me to use it for 5,6,7 irons. With a few more practice buckets I am hoping to get down to single digit handicap yet this year.

Posted on August 9th, 2007 at 8:19 am
43
Double Eagle said:

Good luck, Vic. Let us know how you progress.

Posted on August 9th, 2007 at 9:13 am
44
Golf Digest Revisits the Stack and Tilt said:

[...] More Stack and Tilt Analysis (Life in the Rough) [...]

Posted on August 9th, 2007 at 11:17 pm
45
The Stack & Tilt? | Life in the Rough said:

[...] Further Reading: Golf Digest Revisits the Stack and Tilt (Life in the Rough) More Stack and Tilt Analysis (Life in the Rough) Stack and Tilt: A Follow Up (Life in the Rough) The New Tour Swing (Golf [...]

Posted on August 10th, 2007 at 1:10 pm
46
Barry Hibbs said:

I started Stack and tilt after a local unknown beat 4 champs, match play, in our District using stack and tilt for 6 weeks.
I researched same on Golf Digest. It seemed similiar to the swing jacket which I’ve use. Arms never leaving the chest just sliding left and right on the chest, with a lot of body turn. I always have taken the club too far inside and this swing promotes same. The main difference for me was the weight staying left and holding the stack thru-out.
Practiced twice 80 balls each time. Took to course and shot 2 -87’s. I’m a 16, used to be a 10-11 and am 66, fitness guy also.
One of the 87’s was with 4 doubles and 1 triple. Hit more good to excellent shots than I’ve done in a long time. I tended to hit them high but I was hitting low shots, fat shots andd smother shots before.
When I do it right the ball invariably goes straight. It takes the hands and most of the arms out of the shot. I used to be a armsy,wristy player.
To me this is a body swing and you better make a big forward turn or it will fail.
I’ve had instant success and am going to persist with the stack and tilt.

Posted on August 13th, 2007 at 12:25 am
47
dd said:

http://www.southlandgolfmagazine.com/t-av-new-tour-swing.aspx

Hope this helps

Posted on August 13th, 2007 at 1:12 am
48
Jeff said:

I played again on Friday, only 3 weeks after I switched to the Stack and Tilt, and I shot 80 on one of the toughest courses in town. I really should have gone lower, but I’m still working on hitting my driver straight. Things are coming along well… hitting fairways and greens, and playing better golf than I ever thought I was capable of. I beat all my friends by 20 strokes… they don’t know what hit ‘em.

My swing works great but is still a bit raw. I could be doing some things better like keeping the backswing short and compact, and getting more extension back and through. Maybe its time to refine things using videotape.

Jeff in S.A. TX

Posted on August 13th, 2007 at 2:16 pm
49
Double Eagle said:

I’m a huge fan of video analysis. Especially in this case where you’re trying to change your entire swing.

It’s great to hear that things are going so well!

Posted on August 13th, 2007 at 2:23 pm
50
Jeff said:

Thanks Dana for the info. I picked up another 10 yards by rotating my hips better. Please continue to share any techniques that are key for this swing.

Jeff in S.A. TX

Posted on August 15th, 2007 at 8:04 am
51
Steve Lake said:

I’ve tried the stack and tilt and I’ve been a single digit player for 40 years. I am finally hitting better irons shots for the first time in years!

Posted on August 19th, 2007 at 10:51 pm
52
Double Eagle said:

That’s great to hear Steve. One thing I’m noticing is that the stack and tilt isn’t just helping high handicappers. It’s helping players with single digit handicaps and, of course, even Tour pros.

Posted on August 19th, 2007 at 11:00 pm
53
Steve Lake said:

Hitting the irons a lot better but my driver is either a low hook or a push. How can I correct this?

Posted on August 19th, 2007 at 11:01 pm
54
Double Eagle said:

Steve, there were some tips for hitting the driver in the Golf Digest September 2007 follow-up. That link should take you to the start of the driver slides in the slide show. Check it out and see if anything rings any bells.

Posted on August 19th, 2007 at 11:22 pm
55
Barry Hibbs said:

August 27, 2007
Regressed slightly with the stack and tilt but regained the swing and had an 84 recently w/ 4 doubles. Still hanging in there. I hit more greens than I’ve hit in years during this round when I had the timing of the stack and tilt right.

Posted on August 28th, 2007 at 11:27 pm
56
Double Eagle said:

That’s good to hear, Barry. Do you have any thoughts as to why you might have regressed a bit? Is it a matter have having the timing down on a particular day or just a matter of needing some more practice time?

Either way, it’s great that you were able to recover and get back on track.

Posted on August 28th, 2007 at 11:33 pm
57
Jeff said:

I recently had some problems with this swing and it took me a couple of days to figure out what was wrong. It was simply a matter of keeping my hips centered over the ball on the backswing. I got off track while trying to polish up some of the fine details. I lost focus of what really makes this swing work, which is keeping the spine vertically aligned over the ball.

Posted on August 29th, 2007 at 12:59 pm
58
Barry Hibbs said:

I started hanging back and not turning fully to the left with my hips. Was hitting fat again. Also I think I was hunching over to much.
Cure: Seemed to be a little more upright stance allowed me to tilt more easily. Anchoring my feet to the ground and really using the complete turn with the body, left on the forward swing.
I have also found that if my swing thought is turning my right shoulder behind my head I don’t have to worry about the left knee and left shoulder moving towards the ball as the turning of the right shoulder behind the head automatically makes both go to the ball. It also makes the backswing go inside and the right leg straighten, if you keep your arms in contact with your chest. It also gives the tilt.
You may suggest this to other starters, (that is) after stacking and favoring your left side, think only of turning the right shoulder behind your head will give you all the other desired backswing techniques without having all those thoughts in your head.
This eliminated actually thinking of these other five moves.

When I have problems now ,it seems it is on the forward swing. Getting my arms down to the ball before I clear my hips. It’s a timing thing and when it’s timed right I make pure contact and the ball go high and straight.
When this stack and tilt is done right the ball invariable goes straighter than I have ever hit. I beleive this is because it’s a body swing and it takes my old wristy armsy swing out of play. The clubhead returns to address position which if aimed straight ,the ball goes straight.
My hdcp. is down to 14 from 16 and it’s going lower next cycle. Let’s hope this lasts.
Barry

Posted on August 30th, 2007 at 11:19 pm
59
pezzimiztix said:

the camera angles are totally different - you cannot accurately compare the two. the most important thing to remember with will’s swing is that his body action is a result of his severly open face - as a result his hand action through the ball is completely different than tiger’s. if your hand action is different your body action must compliment the face. no one’s head with a driver is on the ball or past the ball at impact. NO one - at least no one that can play worth a lick. i agree that the move has some benefit for someone who is severly inside to out. its just a feel though. and his entire theory on how the right elbow should be behind you coming down is ludacris. you explained it well… but you are still trying to sell the brooklyn bridge.

thanks for the analysis

Posted on September 9th, 2007 at 2:32 am
60
Double Eagle said:

Thanks for your thoughts, pezzimiztix.

I’m not sure I agree that the camera angle is substantially different. It may not be identical, but if anything it looks to be a hair forward in the Tiger shots and directly face-on in Mackenzie’s.

Also, I didn’t say that Mackenzie’s head was on top of or ahead of the ball, I said it was *almost* on top of the ball, but you’re right that it’s still behind.

It’s evident, though, in every shot how much further back in his stance he’s playing the ball. If anything, the camera perspective being slightly more toward the middle in Mackenzie’s shots, the ball should appear to be more forward.

With the ball further back, his head has to be closer to the ball at impact.

I don’t use the swing myself, so I’m definitely not trying to sell any bridges. I’m just trying to figure out what’s going on.

Posted on September 9th, 2007 at 10:12 am
61
Stan Halter said:

I began experimenting with S&T about five weeks ago after a horrible stretch where I just couldn’t get to my left side consistently. So far, it is the easiest swing change I have ever made. Using it in the bunkers is ideal too.

Biggest problem I have had is overdoing the weight shift to the left on the backswing occasionally. It is so new that I can get too much on the left too soon then hang back on the right some.

I still have some questions on ball position. But further back in my stance sems to work better….just not too much back!

Fairways and greens numbers are better. Scores starting to fall.

BTW…it does work on side hill lies. You just have to take your time swinging.

Just found your site…great work! The revolution starts here..today!

PS: I sprang for some expensive lessons with a Golf Mag top 100 pro last year…and only got worse. It is nice to improve for free!

Posted on October 2nd, 2007 at 9:15 pm
62
Double Eagle said:

Thanks, Stan!

I’m glad to hear you’re having success.

Keep at it and let us know how you progress.

Posted on October 2nd, 2007 at 9:27 pm
63
jeff bartlett said:

This swing has really worked for me. From scoring an average of 85 per round to an average of 77 in my last ten rounds.

Just need to sort out the putter and who knows maybe breaking 70 will follow.

Posted on November 10th, 2007 at 2:36 am
64
Double Eagle said:

I’d say an 8 stroke improvement is pretty good, Jeff.

Another success story!

Posted on November 10th, 2007 at 8:07 am
65
Adam said:

After struggling with my swing the last 2 months (13 handicap), I re-read your article prior to hitting the range. I hit all but about 4 balls of a large bucket very straight. The next day I went to my home course where I hit 10 of 15 fairways (only one poor drive and 4 very much in play). I also hit my irons so straight. The only reason I did not score well was I just could not chip and putt today, but what a relief to have full confidence on the tee box and with my irons. Except for 3 shots which I topped, I think I hit every ball perfectly straight.

The only 2 shots I struggled with was an up hill and down hill lie. I am not sure if I need to change anything, or just practice it a bit.

I feel like I now know how I will get to a single digit handicap….very soon too.

Posted on January 6th, 2008 at 9:18 pm
66
Double Eagle said:

That’s tremendous, Adam!

Ten fairways out of 15 is about 67%, which would put you in the mix on the PGA Tour in fairway %. Now, I know it’s just one round, but if you can keep that up, then you’re a lock for a single digit handicap *IF* you start paying attention to your short game.

I know it’s exciting right now and you’ll be tempted to keep banging away with the full swing. When you feel comfortable with it, really look at spending serious time working on short game and you’ll see huge improvement.

Confidence is a thing of beauty, isn’t it?

Posted on January 6th, 2008 at 9:25 pm
67
Ron Witherspoon said:

I have been using S/T since the end of the season in a dome (snow in Buffalo, NY!) with absolutely great results. I used to shy away from my irons as i always hit them with a level or ascending blow. Now i hit them so well I bought new irons and hitting 5 iron - pw with great consistency and trajectory. To my surprise I am really hitting my woods extremely well! I can feel and hear a “pinch” at impact which rockets the ball straight and high. Hybrids too from 2 iron to 6 iron are straight and true from the pinch. The driver needs some work as I feel i am using the stack part, and not as much tilt on staying on top of the ball. Its a new driver with a longer shaft then i have been hitting and i’m sure thats part of it. I am sold on S/T and cant wait to take it to the course and hit some GIRs with jmy new irons!! What a godsend!!

Posted on January 30th, 2008 at 11:44 am
68
Double Eagle said:

Good to hear that you’re having so much success Ron. I’m interested to hear what happens when you get out on the course in the spring.

Posted on January 30th, 2008 at 11:56 am
69
Patrick said:

Started fiddling with the S&T late last season but am now seriously working on it. A couple of observations. First, many have observed that it is a body rotational swing more than an arm and wrist swing. While I agree in that keeping one’s arms on your chest give the sensation of more of a body swing I find that it makes me “stuck” a bit. Especially with the driver I find that if I combine a good hard swing with the rotaion (have to time it)I hit some long, high and straight blasts. Second, the developers of the swing promote a rather severe lateral shift to the left on the downswing which helps “flatten” out the swing. Wouldn’t this indicate that S&T is not actually a one plane swing? What do you golf nuts think?

Posted on February 27th, 2008 at 12:38 am
70
Double Eagle said:

Patrick,

The Stack and Tilt can be a one plane swing, but it differs in many ways from Jim Hardy’s One-Plane Swing concept.

One similarity the two share is the idea of being “stacked”, referring to keeping the weight fairly centered throughout the swing.

But the Stack and Tilt doesn’t necessarily require the player to have the shoulders, left arm, and club in the same plane at the top of the back swing. Some players do, but some don’t. I believe someone pointed out in a comment recently (on another post) that Will MacKenzie doesn’t swing on a single plane.

Also, as you pointed out, the lateral shift with the Stack and Tilt is different than Hardy’s one plane swing.

So while the S&T is not the same as the Hardy swing, it can still be executed on one plane.

Posted on February 27th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
71
Pete said:

I have always been a decent golfer, but struggled with a slice most of the time and could never really trust my swing. I’m tall and had a problem getting my weight on my left side during the swing follow-thru. Anyway, read about the S&T swing in golf digest, also viewed some Utube swing sequences of Aaron Baddeley and thought I’d give it a try. I just practiced going thru the motions and swinging without any ball and feels like I’m taking a 3/4 swing.
For me the swing has worked out perfect. Now I’m getting thru the swing with my weight on my left side which gives my ball flight a lower and penetrating draw. In 2007 I was able to shoot my best score ever, a 60 and it seemed so effortless. It has improved my whole game and I would recommend this new S&T swing to anyone.

A comment on the WGC-Match Play Championship.
Aaron Baddeley matched Tiger Woods shot for shot and had upset in his grasp had he been able to sink a putt. I think Baddeley will keep getting better and be a real threat to Tiger, given more time to fully master this unique swing.

Posted on March 18th, 2008 at 10:43 pm
72
Patrick said:

Pete,

Just read your post and my question is, what were you shooting before that 60? If you were anywhere close to that type of number I’m surprised you would have tinkered with such a radical swing change like the S&T. Anyway, congratulations!!!

I am still at the neophyte stage of this swing. Just played my third round of the year and am feeling more confident with it. Two things I am noticing that seem to contradict many others’experience are my distance and ball flight. I am hitting it farther than ever (coming up on my 48th b-day) and higher than ever.This swing seems to allow me to manipulate the clubface more than ever which may explain both. One thing I do seem to have in common is my back doesn’t ache after a round like it used to. A work in progress.

Posted on March 18th, 2008 at 11:26 pm
73
Double Eagle said:

I continue to be amazed. Thanks for sharing the experiences, guys.

Posted on March 18th, 2008 at 11:31 pm
74
Pete said:

My scoring average up to the middle of 2007 was 75 before the S&T swing change. I just could never trust the old traditional swing and that was always was in the back of my mind.

This new ball flight for me is lower and longer with a slight draw. I’m swinging a standard length stiff shaft driver with an 8.5 face. I also have a 9.5 driver for a somewhat higher trajectory. My long irons are crisper with a more boring trajectory, short irons are tight. I’m telling you, this swing has changed my game around, I just can’t believe it happened so quickly.

I love watching Baddeley’s swing in slo-mo and how he pinches the ball.
Hey, I’ve only been at this for a year and believe there another 60 in me…somewhere?
Just remember to crush the can!

Posted on March 19th, 2008 at 12:36 am
75
Patrick said:

I can tell I’m new to this swing because I had already forgotten the crucial element of “crushing the can”. So thanks for the reminder. I took that thought to the range today and hit six iron after six iron about 190 yds(I’m at elevation)and I swear they all landed within five feet from each other with perfect trajectory. I love the balance and on top of the ball feeling.

I totally agree about Baddely’s move. It looks effortless, but not in a Couples or Els kind of way. He will win a major soon.

Posted on March 19th, 2008 at 10:41 pm
76
Pete said:

I will be watching to see how well the pro stack & tilters do this week at the Doral Tournament.

Here’s another swing thought to help master this swing. If your right handed keep your right elbow close to your side on the back & down swing. The right hand and shoulder start down together, caused by the crush the can move. Watch the rear view of Aaron Baddeleys swing on Utube bizhub from the start of the downswing. Centrifigal force takes over to complete the swing. That’s it, just a simple move.

To me Baddeley’s swing tempo seems quicker but more efficient with the shorter backswing, than Els or Couples. Also, I think your right, the S&T is much easier on the back.

Posted on March 20th, 2008 at 12:17 am
77
Ranger19 said:

Just started experimenting with the S & T and found your website invaluable.

My question revolves around the “crush the can” concept. The photos in the GD article show the ball of the foot crushing down on the can. Yet in the actual swing your left heel is off the ground. Am I missing something?

How about another image or thought for the transition to get the hips moving forward and to stand up straight at impact.

Thanks.

Posted on March 25th, 2008 at 11:52 am
78
Double Eagle said:

Hi Ranger. Glad you found the website useful.

Regarding the issue about crushing the can, if you’re right-handed, your left heel shouldn’t be off the ground once the downswing starts. I think it’s probably OK if it comes up a little bit in the back swing. Once the down swing starts, though, it should be planted flat on the ground.

The feeling I had when I was trying out the swing was that of stomping my foot in to the turf (not lifting it up and then stomping, but just as if I was trying to push my foot down into into the turf).

Have a look at the images of Aaron Baddeley from the original article here. You can see that as the downswing starts, his left knee is flexed, but his foot is flat on the ground. As the swing progresses, his left leg straightens quickly and his hips thrust upward and become level. In all three images there, you can see his left foot squarely on the turf.

An alternative mental image you can use is quickly straightening your left leg as you swing down through the ball (while making sure to thrust your pelvis upward).

I hope that helps. Feel free to stop back and let everyone know how you make out.

Posted on March 25th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
79
Patrick said:

I took the S&T to the University of New Mexico Championship Course yesterday (host of this years NCAA Women’s championship in May). They have it in unbelievably good shape and with a 20 m.p.h wind it had teeth. Since I seem to be so early on in my S&T development, I find early in rounds I have trouble trusting this new swing and consequently don’t execute it as described. But after about three holes I start doing it correctly and the results are so good that I only wish I’d known of it twenty years ago. The “rotational” feel of the swing is becoming ingrained and it appears to produce really good club-head speed. Currently my thougt is centered on the pelvic thrust aspect on the through swing. Another big test comes Saturday at Pa-Ko Ridge.

Posted on March 27th, 2008 at 11:47 pm
80
Pete said:

On the weight shift and crush the can move. In my swing it feels like the weight goes to the right heel on the back swing. On the forward swing the weight goes to the left heel. It’s a very simple swing, with no lifting of the foot until after the ball is hit.

Posted on March 29th, 2008 at 8:44 am
81
Ranger19 said:

Just returned from a four day trip to Florida where I was able to put the S & T into operational mode.

The results were far better than I had hoped for. I have always been a straight hitter off the tee. Not long but I hit about 70% of my fairways. My problem is that I hit only 40% of the greens. Through a lot of work with my short game I have been able to lower my hndcp to a 5.

My normal swing is laid off resulting in a lot of missed greens left or weak right. I am able to hit a lot of fairways because I use my hands to get the club square at impact.

The S & T has allowed me to finally hit my irons with authority. The first day out I hit over 55% of the greens and shot a 77.

Similar results the next two rounds. My driver and fairway woods remain about the same but clearly my iron play is where I needed improvement.

On my last day I ended up losing the swing a bit. Unless you are a pro, after four straight rounds the swing begins to fray at the edges. I began missing my irons left and then compensated by blocking them right.

When I got home I re-read your site and the Golf Digest articles and quickly realized that I was not straightening out my right leg and was thereby just whipping the club around waist thus leading to hooks or blocks.

Still working on the concept of “crushing the can” but your suggestion about straightening the left leg quickly makes sense.
My only problem is I feel that I am already on my left side so how would I push down on the can. Again, maybe you can help me through that process.

I have never been more encouraged about starting the golf season than I am now. I intend to really commit to the S & T for the next month to see if it can continue to improve my iron play.

Your site has been very helpful.

Posted on March 30th, 2008 at 10:56 pm
82
Double Eagle said:

Nice to see you making real progress, Ranger. I’m glad I’ve been able to help in a small way.

As far as the left leg and “can crushing” move, I think the following section of the Golf Digest article is key for you. I know you’ve read it multiple times, but it’s worth keeping in mind:

——-
“The turning body is supplying the initial acceleration, so the player must maximize rotational speed. The hips have limited turning capacity when they’re tilted, so they have to come out of their tilt to keep accelerating. The move that releases the hips is a springing up of the lower body, where the butt muscles push the hips upward and toward the target. The player has to feel as if he’s jumping up as the club comes down.

As you start down, imagine you’re crushing a soda can under your left foot. The body has stayed centered on the backswing, so there’s no need to shift back to the ball. This downward pressure on the left foot sets up the upward thrust of the hips through impact.”
——-

The part in bold is important. The left leg straightening (or “can crushing” move) is a function of that springing up movement. That’s another great bit of imagery that you can use. You’re not just pressing your foot into the turf for the sake of doing that, you’re doing that so you can engage your butt muscles and propel your hips upward.

Posted on March 30th, 2008 at 11:22 pm
83
David said:

Hi guys,

I was an early poster on your first post about S+T ( just after I had my first ever hole in one I think ) so just thought I’d let you know I still find it so easy to swing this way. Sunday I was only able to play 11 holes, very cold, course soaking wet after a downpour so absolutely not an inch of run even on full drives. Hit 8 greens of the first 9 in regulation ! Failed to hole a single birdie putt to the relief of my palying partners ( costs them 2 Euros per birdie ) but that’s another story. S+T still rocks !

Posted on April 7th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
84
Double Eagle said:

Thanks for giving us an update, David. It’s great to hear from more and more people who have tried the swing for some time and continue to have improved ball striking and consistency.

Now, you just need to get your putting in order to convert some of those birdie chances. At 2 Euro each, you’re going to be making some nice money from your partners.

Posted on April 7th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
85
Bob said:

I have been working at this and have a couple of problems. One is the misses generally go left, I believe this may be caused by not being able to shorten the swing enough. The other is this swing seems to bother my left knee on occassion. Any advice?
Thanks,
Bob

Posted on April 29th, 2008 at 6:50 pm
86
Double Eagle said:

Bob, I don’t have any definitive advice to give you, so hopefully some of the other readers will be able to offer some thoughts.

One thing that does come to mind with respect to the knee pain is perhaps a flexibility issue. How is your flexibility in your back and hips? Maybe some tightness is causing a little extra torque on your knee? If you think that might be the culprit, it may help to do some stretching to target those areas. In my sidebar, there are links to the Titleist Performance Institute, Mike Pedersen Golf, and Better Golf With Fitness, all great resources on golf fitness where you can find tons of stretches and exercises to target those areas.

Hopefully someone out there has experience with shots missing left that can offer you some advice. Though, if you do have flexibility issues, that could cause a lot of problems.

All this is speculation, of course, since I haven’t seen your swing. Feel free to go into more detail about your swing and flexibility if you’d like and maybe someone will have some ideas.

Posted on April 29th, 2008 at 7:25 pm
87
Joseph said:

Bob,
my left knee bothers me too when I find that it caves in towards the ball on the backswing. If you have the same issue, try flaring your front foot more towards the target at setup. This will fold your front leg and point your knee more on a downward angle rather than towards the ball.

If you notice the pics in the Golf Digest’s article, you will see P&B have a flared foot and the knee is not caved in on their backswing.

Just a thought…

Posted on May 3rd, 2008 at 11:09 am
88
Joseph said:

Bob,
One more thought…

Pulling left? For me, I pull left on occasion because my rear shoulder tends to cheat and moves a little forward at setup because I put more weight on the front.

Be sure you are “stacked” over the ball and shoulders squared at setup.

Aloha

Posted on May 3rd, 2008 at 11:40 am
89
Double Eagle said:

Great thoughts, Joseph. Thanks for sharing them.

Posted on May 3rd, 2008 at 12:20 pm
90
Joseph said:

Stack and Tilt has a new instructional DVD from P&B. Anyone have feedback on this? I am thinking of purchasing…

thanks

http://www.stackgolf.com/land01.php?sid=51985

Posted on May 25th, 2008 at 9:35 am
91
hanon said:

Here is a link with some good keys to hit the driver:
Click here.

Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
92
Jim Marlow said:

I am a 66 year old 8 handicap golfer that changes swing thoughts as often as some people change their underwear. I am tired of that and think I have found what I need with the S&T.

Golf lesson videos through the years show that I have two big swing faults. I raise my head on the backswing and left my hips sway towards the target on the downswing. The S&T easily corrects the head coming up since I feel like my head lowers towards the my left foot on the backswing and the shifting of my left hip towards the target is part of the S&T.

I would like to get a little more distance off the tee with the S&T. (looks like it goes farther when you see it in the air). Maybe when I get my DVD’s that I ordered it will give me some ideas on getting the ball out there a little farther.

The only other problem I encounter on an ongoing basis is trying to hit a 3 wood off the grass. Too often it pops up to the right.

I have also noticed that one cannot get lazy or worn out as the round goes on because if you don’t get those hips thrusted properly and with energy you will leave the shot out to the right.

But overall; I like the fact that I can take this swing to the course and it holds up better under pressure. I think it is because I only need to think about proper body movements and my arms and hands are just along for the ride.

Posted on June 28th, 2008 at 6:27 pm
93
Double Eagle said:

Interesting thoughts, Jim. Thanks for sharing them.

You’re definitely right about getting worn out during a round. With the S&T, I can see it getting worse because of the necessity of a good pelvic thrust. Fatigue certainly hurts players with conventional swings, but I can see the problem with S&T. All the more reason for all of us to get in shape and stay that way!

After you get the S&T DVDs and have a chance to watch them, I’d be interested in hearing your thoughts. There’s a lot of interest in the swing and players would love to know about them.

Posted on June 28th, 2008 at 8:31 pm
94
Jim Marlow said:

Well I just received my DVD’s (4) today and have viewed 2 of the 4. I was initially disappointed tha