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	<title>Comments on: Swing Changes Take a Long Time</title>
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	<link>http://www.lifeintherough.com/2007/07/18/swing-changes-take-a-long-time/</link>
	<description>My Quest to Become a Golf Pro</description>
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		<title>By: HappyRock</title>
		<link>http://www.lifeintherough.com/2007/07/18/swing-changes-take-a-long-time/comment-page-1/#comment-232</link>
		<dc:creator>HappyRock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2007 19:34:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lifeintherough.com/2007/07/18/swing-changes-take-a-long-time/#comment-232</guid>
		<description>I guess it is all about what goals we think are valuable at the time.  Like most choices it partly comes down to what we value. If the value of the experience and the learning that you will gain by figuring it out yourself at the expense of time, versus letting a pro figure it out quickly.  The value the second option might provides is a time savings, which will let you accomplish other goals.  Depends on which goal is more valuable at the current time, and it sounds like you really want to think the former is more valuable.  

I guess you could split the difference too, and get some updated video of your &#039;flawed&#039; swing.  It might help diagnose things.

As far as the pros, you make a good point that having friends and partners that are world class golfers probably makes it harder for problems to &#039;slip&#039; by.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess it is all about what goals we think are valuable at the time.  Like most choices it partly comes down to what we value. If the value of the experience and the learning that you will gain by figuring it out yourself at the expense of time, versus letting a pro figure it out quickly.  The value the second option might provides is a time savings, which will let you accomplish other goals.  Depends on which goal is more valuable at the current time, and it sounds like you really want to think the former is more valuable.  </p>
<p>I guess you could split the difference too, and get some updated video of your &#8216;flawed&#8217; swing.  It might help diagnose things.</p>
<p>As far as the pros, you make a good point that having friends and partners that are world class golfers probably makes it harder for problems to &#8216;slip&#8217; by.</p>
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		<title>By: Double Eagle</title>
		<link>http://www.lifeintherough.com/2007/07/18/swing-changes-take-a-long-time/comment-page-1/#comment-230</link>
		<dc:creator>Double Eagle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2007 01:20:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lifeintherough.com/2007/07/18/swing-changes-take-a-long-time/#comment-230</guid>
		<description>Dave, I didn&#039;t mean to discourage taking lessons.  I&#039;m a huge proponent of that.  It&#039;s just that I&#039;ve been trying to see if I can work through the issues that I&#039;ve been having.

At some point, regular lessons will have to become a part of my routine.  But right now, I&#039;m just trying to return to prior form and to test how well I can diagnose swing problems and apply fixes in my own game.

I&#039;ll put the Shoemaker book on my list as well.  After Paper Tiger, you&#039;re on my recommendation A-List ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave, I didn&#8217;t mean to discourage taking lessons.  I&#8217;m a huge proponent of that.  It&#8217;s just that I&#8217;ve been trying to see if I can work through the issues that I&#8217;ve been having.</p>
<p>At some point, regular lessons will have to become a part of my routine.  But right now, I&#8217;m just trying to return to prior form and to test how well I can diagnose swing problems and apply fixes in my own game.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll put the Shoemaker book on my list as well.  After Paper Tiger, you&#8217;re on my recommendation A-List <img src='http://www.lifeintherough.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.lifeintherough.com/2007/07/18/swing-changes-take-a-long-time/comment-page-1/#comment-229</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2007 00:26:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lifeintherough.com/2007/07/18/swing-changes-take-a-long-time/#comment-229</guid>
		<description>I gotta say, I don&#039;t think going to take a lesson is throwing in the towel, I think it&#039;s smart golf!  Over the past year and a half I&#039;ve been seeing the same pro every two or three weeks, and there results are definitely there.  Plus, it&#039;s more fun to have something specific to work on at the range or practice green, as opposed to being frustrated and trying to figure things out on my own.  In my experience, a good pro can see in five minutes what would take me the whole summer to figure out.

I&#039;ll throw something in about the books too.  I read Golf Is Not A Game Of Perfect and thought it was awesome.  I also read The Inner Game Of Golf.  It had some really good ideas, but I didn&#039;t like the presentation.  You might want to check out Extraordinary Golf by Fred Shoemaker.  He&#039;s a bit of a Tim Gallwey protege and shares some of the same ideas, but in a better written book (IMHO).

The one Tim Gallwey concept that I really hang on to is the idea that I need to feel what my body is doing.  The worst case scenario is if I get to an awful finish position and have no idea how I got there.  His ideas about trying to repeat both good and bad swings (at the range) for the purpose of feeling what is happening was new to me and definitely helped.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I gotta say, I don&#8217;t think going to take a lesson is throwing in the towel, I think it&#8217;s smart golf!  Over the past year and a half I&#8217;ve been seeing the same pro every two or three weeks, and there results are definitely there.  Plus, it&#8217;s more fun to have something specific to work on at the range or practice green, as opposed to being frustrated and trying to figure things out on my own.  In my experience, a good pro can see in five minutes what would take me the whole summer to figure out.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll throw something in about the books too.  I read Golf Is Not A Game Of Perfect and thought it was awesome.  I also read The Inner Game Of Golf.  It had some really good ideas, but I didn&#8217;t like the presentation.  You might want to check out Extraordinary Golf by Fred Shoemaker.  He&#8217;s a bit of a Tim Gallwey protege and shares some of the same ideas, but in a better written book (IMHO).</p>
<p>The one Tim Gallwey concept that I really hang on to is the idea that I need to feel what my body is doing.  The worst case scenario is if I get to an awful finish position and have no idea how I got there.  His ideas about trying to repeat both good and bad swings (at the range) for the purpose of feeling what is happening was new to me and definitely helped.</p>
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		<title>By: Double Eagle</title>
		<link>http://www.lifeintherough.com/2007/07/18/swing-changes-take-a-long-time/comment-page-1/#comment-225</link>
		<dc:creator>Double Eagle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jul 2007 23:11:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lifeintherough.com/2007/07/18/swing-changes-take-a-long-time/#comment-225</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the recommendation, Greg!  Amazon should have it to me by Friday.  

Five Lessons, Short Game/Putting Bibles, and Little Red Book are my absolute required golf reading.

Right now, I&#039;m reading &quot;Golf is not a Game of Perfect&quot; by Dr. Bob Rotella.  I just got started but it&#039;s interesting so far.  The Inner Game of Golf will be right after that.  I can&#039;t wait.

I&#039;d like to do more book reviews, but they take a longer to write, so I don&#039;t do them as much as I&#039;d like.  I might create a reading list page and then make it a point to review each one when I can.

After I get to Gallwey&#039;s book, I&#039;ll be sure to do a review and we can use that as a springboard to talk more about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the recommendation, Greg!  Amazon should have it to me by Friday.  </p>
<p>Five Lessons, Short Game/Putting Bibles, and Little Red Book are my absolute required golf reading.</p>
<p>Right now, I&#8217;m reading &#8220;Golf is not a Game of Perfect&#8221; by Dr. Bob Rotella.  I just got started but it&#8217;s interesting so far.  The Inner Game of Golf will be right after that.  I can&#8217;t wait.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to do more book reviews, but they take a longer to write, so I don&#8217;t do them as much as I&#8217;d like.  I might create a reading list page and then make it a point to review each one when I can.</p>
<p>After I get to Gallwey&#8217;s book, I&#8217;ll be sure to do a review and we can use that as a springboard to talk more about it.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Bartz</title>
		<link>http://www.lifeintherough.com/2007/07/18/swing-changes-take-a-long-time/comment-page-1/#comment-224</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Bartz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jul 2007 21:33:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lifeintherough.com/2007/07/18/swing-changes-take-a-long-time/#comment-224</guid>
		<description>Mike,

I&#039;d like to recommend that you get a copy of Timothy Gallwey&#039;s &quot;The Inner Game of Golf&quot;.  I&#039;m about half way through it and I love his approach to learning the game.  I&#039;d be much more likely to take lesson&#039;s if I could find a pro who followed Tim&#039;s teaching philosophy.  I have the first edition of this book and I feel it is so good, that I will find a copy of the latest edition as I&#039;ve heard that some additions were made.

Other books I&#039;ve read for reference:

Hogan&#039;s &quot;Five Lessons&quot;
Dave Pelz&#039; &quot;Short Game Bible&quot;
Dave Pelz&#039; &quot;Putting Bible&quot;
Harvey Pennek&#039;s &quot;Little Red Book&quot;
Lee Trevino&#039;s &quot;A Snake in the Grass&quot;
Fred Shoemaker&#039;s &quot;Extraordinary Golf&quot;
Dr. David Cook&#039;s &quot;Golf&#039;s Sacred Journey&quot;

On my short list are:
Golf&#039;s Three Noble Truths
Golf in the Kingdom

The way I see it Mike, you are an experimenter with golf.  Tim helps take that experimentation to the next level.

Check out Tim&#039;s book.  It can be had for a few bucks at Amazon or eBay.  

-Greg</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike,</p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to recommend that you get a copy of Timothy Gallwey&#8217;s &#8220;The Inner Game of Golf&#8221;.  I&#8217;m about half way through it and I love his approach to learning the game.  I&#8217;d be much more likely to take lesson&#8217;s if I could find a pro who followed Tim&#8217;s teaching philosophy.  I have the first edition of this book and I feel it is so good, that I will find a copy of the latest edition as I&#8217;ve heard that some additions were made.</p>
<p>Other books I&#8217;ve read for reference:</p>
<p>Hogan&#8217;s &#8220;Five Lessons&#8221;<br />
Dave Pelz&#8217; &#8220;Short Game Bible&#8221;<br />
Dave Pelz&#8217; &#8220;Putting Bible&#8221;<br />
Harvey Pennek&#8217;s &#8220;Little Red Book&#8221;<br />
Lee Trevino&#8217;s &#8220;A Snake in the Grass&#8221;<br />
Fred Shoemaker&#8217;s &#8220;Extraordinary Golf&#8221;<br />
Dr. David Cook&#8217;s &#8220;Golf&#8217;s Sacred Journey&#8221;</p>
<p>On my short list are:<br />
Golf&#8217;s Three Noble Truths<br />
Golf in the Kingdom</p>
<p>The way I see it Mike, you are an experimenter with golf.  Tim helps take that experimentation to the next level.</p>
<p>Check out Tim&#8217;s book.  It can be had for a few bucks at Amazon or eBay.  </p>
<p>-Greg</p>
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		<title>By: Double Eagle</title>
		<link>http://www.lifeintherough.com/2007/07/18/swing-changes-take-a-long-time/comment-page-1/#comment-223</link>
		<dc:creator>Double Eagle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jul 2007 14:55:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lifeintherough.com/2007/07/18/swing-changes-take-a-long-time/#comment-223</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a good question.  Honestly, I&#039;m not sure, and I&#039;m not sure if it&#039;s the same for everyone.  However, I&#039;d bet that they&#039;re on the range with their teachers (in the case of Tour pros) when things go south.

Also, (and I do know this), on Tour a lot of times they get tips and advice from their fellow pros on the range.  I mean, a player of that caliber is in good shape when he looks up and down the range and sees the other best players in the world all around.  There&#039;s a lot of combined knowledge there.  Not to mention all the various top teachers in the game lurking around at every event.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a good question.  Honestly, I&#8217;m not sure, and I&#8217;m not sure if it&#8217;s the same for everyone.  However, I&#8217;d bet that they&#8217;re on the range with their teachers (in the case of Tour pros) when things go south.</p>
<p>Also, (and I do know this), on Tour a lot of times they get tips and advice from their fellow pros on the range.  I mean, a player of that caliber is in good shape when he looks up and down the range and sees the other best players in the world all around.  There&#8217;s a lot of combined knowledge there.  Not to mention all the various top teachers in the game lurking around at every event.</p>
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		<title>By: HappyRock</title>
		<link>http://www.lifeintherough.com/2007/07/18/swing-changes-take-a-long-time/comment-page-1/#comment-222</link>
		<dc:creator>HappyRock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jul 2007 14:21:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lifeintherough.com/2007/07/18/swing-changes-take-a-long-time/#comment-222</guid>
		<description>Back to basics, nice!

Often it in life, especially when we are mired in the mud and soup, basics are a true inspiration.  Our eyes become blinded to the &#039;truth&#039; and we get frustrated, depressed, and ready to give up.  Going back to the basics helps remind us that we can change things, have some control, be successful, and most importantly energizes us to cast of the dead weight of frustration and negative emotions.

Great job DE.


PS :  This is just a question, I don&#039;t know the answer(but am interested).  What to you think the pros do when they start shanking the ball or pushing it to the right? Do the try to fix it themselves, go right to a pro, take a break, or is it personal preference? I don&#039;t know if this information is out there, but I would think the answer to that questions might influence your approach.  If we want to be pros, we should be doing what they do for the most part.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Back to basics, nice!</p>
<p>Often it in life, especially when we are mired in the mud and soup, basics are a true inspiration.  Our eyes become blinded to the &#8216;truth&#8217; and we get frustrated, depressed, and ready to give up.  Going back to the basics helps remind us that we can change things, have some control, be successful, and most importantly energizes us to cast of the dead weight of frustration and negative emotions.</p>
<p>Great job DE.</p>
<p>PS :  This is just a question, I don&#8217;t know the answer(but am interested).  What to you think the pros do when they start shanking the ball or pushing it to the right? Do the try to fix it themselves, go right to a pro, take a break, or is it personal preference? I don&#8217;t know if this information is out there, but I would think the answer to that questions might influence your approach.  If we want to be pros, we should be doing what they do for the most part.</p>
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