There are currently 8 responses to “Learning From Feedback Devices”

1. 1

   Saturday Golfer said:

   This sounds like a device the could help my game considerably. Where did you purchase this tool?

   http://saturdaygolfer.com/blog/

   Posted on January 3rd, 2008 at 4:37 pm

2. 2

   Double Eagle said:

   I bought one used from someone. You can get a new Putting Track from Dave Pelz’s website at http://www.pelzgolf.com

   Posted on January 3rd, 2008 at 6:14 pm

3. 3

   Greg B. said:

   I don’t use feedback devices, but I’m interested in seeing how this works out for you.

   Have you been using your medicine ball? I’ve been considering getting one of these for a while now.

   Great job on your off season training thus far!

   -Greg

   Posted on January 4th, 2008 at 8:52 am

4. 4

   Double Eagle said:

   I haven’t used the medicine ball lately, Greg, though I do like it and recommend one. In my case, I really have two workout routines right now. One for the gym (cardio and weights) and one for home (stretching and other stuff).

   The medicine ball normally fits in with my at home workout. I’ve been having some trouble with my back for a little while and have been doing the rehab exercises that were prescribed to me last year to treat the herniated disk in my back during my at home workout time.

   I had stopped doing those exercises and moved on to more advanced stuff, but I think I need to stick with those types of things to keep my back strong and flexible, or else it slowly reverts back to giving me trouble, even when I’m staying active with other exercise.

   After I get that under control, I’ll be going back to doing more stuff with the medicine ball.

   Posted on January 4th, 2008 at 12:30 pm

5. 5

   Mike Pedersen Golf said:

   The medicine ball is one of the best tools for golfers who want to develop more power in their core. I have it in most of my golf fitness dvds and books.

   Posted on January 6th, 2008 at 3:14 pm

6. 6

   Ron Marteniuk said:

   I enjoy your website and my game has benefited from your reviews and comments.

   I do have some comments on the putting guide that you reviewed and are personally using to perhaps improve your putting.

   I have spent most of my career as a researcher of human movement control and learning. As part of this work, I have become acquainted with an area of research dealing with the use of guidance in movement learning. The types of guidance techniques do not differ that much from the putting guide.

   This research literature generally shows that guidance, when used extensively in training, produces either no learning or very little. This holds for a large variety of movements. While guidance does improve performance when the guide is used, once the guide is removed performance goes back to what it was before guidance training began.

   I believe the reasons for this lack of learning under guidance are twofold. First, the movement planning process, which is an important part of the learning process, is different when you plan to move under guidance than when you must plan a movement under the conditions the movement is normally performed in. Second, the feedback one receives (visual, kinesthetic, touch) while a movement is being guided is different than when the movement is executed normally. Feedback is essential for learning and learning is optimized when feedback during practicing a movement is the same as when it is performed, in the case of golf, during the game. This latter point comes from another highly researched area in movement learning dealing with the specificity of practice.

   However, I completely agree with you, as you so nicely pointed out, that the putting guide is useful for showing errors in putting. This might also be shown in a well done video of putting.

   My advice for using the putting guide is to use it for a few putting strokes for identifying errors in your putting stroke. Then, armed with this information, practice putting without the guide and use the information about your errors in putting to modify your putting plan and execution. Work on this for several sessions, then go back to the putting guide and do another “test”. Keep repeating this process until you are satisfied your stroke is what you want it to be. This way you maximize practice under conditions you play under.

   Finally, I will be interested in your evaluation of the results of your winter long practice with the putting guide. Will your evaluation be based on your performance in the putting guide (no loop and a square face throughout the putt) or will it be the average number of putts taken in the spring compared to the same figure from last summer of fall (or some other comparable game performance indicator)?

   Posted on January 11th, 2008 at 4:30 am

7. 7

   Double Eagle said:

   Ron,

   Interesting information.

   I think the one thing where the Putting Track might differ from what you’re describing is that the whole purpose of the device is for a person to make a square putting stroke while not under guidance, even while using the device.

   In other words, the rails are there to tell you when you’re doing it wrong (the putter will hit them), but as improvement happens you should be able to putt within the rails without touching them at all.

   I also think that the device provides a three other benefits aside from the rails that are important and might be a bigger source of improvement than I realize. First, there’s a small mirror on the front cross member to help with correctly aligning the eyes over the ball. Second there’s an arrow to help with consistent ball position at address. Third, there are lines all along the rails to show putter face alignment all during the stroke.

   Perhaps these other factors have more of an effect in executing the square stroke than the rails do.

   Also, you recommend using the device for a few strokes and then stroking real putts. Pelz sort of recommends that. Not immediately, but he recommends using the track for ten or fifteen minutes a day, but not as a replacement for real practice. It could be that the benefit comes simply from the fact that the track lets the player see and feel what the correct stroke actually looks like and that the real development happens on the practice green as the player tries to consciously relive those sensations.

   Either way, you raise interesting questions.

   As for my own evaluation, I’m kind of keeping track of how I do with the track. I’ve been trying to keep track of how many strokes out of ten I can stroke without touching the sides at the start of each session. But ultimately, the evaluation must be based on what I do on the course.

   Unfortunately, I only have a handful of rounds in my statistics from last year, but as you can see by looking at my stats page, my putting average was 1.98 putts per hole. I’ll certainly have to use that for comparison because I don’t really have the ability to detect a looped stroke or non-square putter face without using the putting track itself.

   I wish I had a larger sample of data to use, but I’ll have to go with what I have. I know anecdotal evidence really isn’t proof of anything, but my two 9-hole rounds last week felt really different to me in terms of striking what I feel was significantly more putts on the sweet spot.

   Thanks for checking in with some thought provoking ideas.

   Mike

   Posted on January 11th, 2008 at 9:52 am

8. 8

   michal said:

   For the most part I’ve never really used feedback devices. Not because I didn’t believe they had potential to improve my game but, after the cost of equiptment, buckets o’ balls and two rounds a week I just couldn’t afford them.
   However, the most successful feedback tool(technique) I’ve found for my own putting was a trick I picked up from Phil Mickleson on some golf show.
   PROBLEM:
   My putter was not staying square through my entire stroke. A friend of mine told me that I was pulling my putter to the inside on my backstroke which was opening up my putter head and I was never able to square it as I brought the putter forward through my stroke.
   SOLUTION:
   I took 4 tees and went to a practice putting green. I stuck two tees about 6 inches behind the placement of my ball. I used the width of my putter to space them apart. I did the same thing about 6 inches in front of my ball placement. Once setup, this would force me to pull my putter back straight to avoid hitting the tees above or below my putter. It took a few weeks of getting use to but It’s helped immensely. And, now I’ve developed a much more true stroke.
   Now, if you could recommend a poor mans technique to get a handle on my lag distance I’ll be set.

   Posted on May 27th, 2008 at 1:17 am

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