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	<title>Comments on: Trading Science for Art Around the Greens</title>
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	<link>http://www.lifeintherough.com/2010/01/20/trading-science-for-art-around-the-greens/</link>
	<description>My Quest to Become a Golf Pro</description>
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		<title>By: Mike Gray</title>
		<link>http://www.lifeintherough.com/2010/01/20/trading-science-for-art-around-the-greens/comment-page-1/#comment-17890</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Gray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jul 2011 15:03:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lifeintherough.com/?p=2471#comment-17890</guid>
		<description>Scotty,

That&#039;s something that&#039;s not easy to answer without seeing what&#039;s happening, but there are some general things to consider. First, if your wedge grooves are worn, then you have little chance of imparting that kind of spin. Also, if you&#039;re not using a ball that will perform at a higher spin rate (like a distance ball), then you won&#039;t be able to do it very easily.

Beyond that, you need to make sure you&#039;re striking the ball with a descending blow, hitting ball first and then turf. You need to make sure you&#039;re making solid contact, as well. I like to make sure that I&#039;m not letting the clubhead pass my hands before impact and also that my left wrist is flat at impact.

Finally, make sure you&#039;re managing your expectations. A tour pro isn&#039;t going to spin back a 30-yard pitch. From full-swing distance, you don&#039;t need to hit it &quot;hard&quot;. Watch a PGA Tour event and I doubt you&#039;ll ever see a pro crushing a wedge. Their club head speed is generally higher than ours because their swings are more optimal. For instance, if you&#039;re a slicer, chances are that your club head speed is much lower than possible for the amount of effort you expend. That&#039;s true for every club in the bag.

That said, I&#039;m reminded of something I read a while ago. It may have been in Harvey Penick&#039;s Little Red Book or it may have been a quote from one of the old-time pros or teachers. I&#039;m not sure the source off the top of my head. But the person was asked by an amateur how he could make the ball spin backward on the green. And his reply was something to the effect of, &quot;Why would you want to?&quot;

It sounds dismissive, and I know that when we feel like we&#039;re not able to replicate what the pros do, that we&#039;re missing something. But putting that much spin on the ball adds another variable to the short game that you have to account for. Any pro would like his/her shots to stop dead, not spin back, because it&#039;s just another piece of the puzzle that they have to guess at.

I remember being at the Buick Classic at Westchester Country Club maybe ten years ago. I can&#039;t remember the hole, but it might have been the 7th. It was a dog-leg par four, and the green was tiered and sloped back to front. It was morning and had rained the day before so everything was soft and wet. The flag was around the middle of the green. I watched three pros in a row hit the ball within a reasonable distance of the flag, only to have their balls spin back all the way off the front of the green. I don&#039;t remember if any or all of them got up and down, but I know that they would have been looking at birdie had their shots stopped dead or even rolled forward some.

If all else fails, I&#039;m certain that a lesson or two with a pro will show you what you can do to increase your spin on approach shots.

Best of luck.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scotty,</p>
<p>That&#8217;s something that&#8217;s not easy to answer without seeing what&#8217;s happening, but there are some general things to consider. First, if your wedge grooves are worn, then you have little chance of imparting that kind of spin. Also, if you&#8217;re not using a ball that will perform at a higher spin rate (like a distance ball), then you won&#8217;t be able to do it very easily.</p>
<p>Beyond that, you need to make sure you&#8217;re striking the ball with a descending blow, hitting ball first and then turf. You need to make sure you&#8217;re making solid contact, as well. I like to make sure that I&#8217;m not letting the clubhead pass my hands before impact and also that my left wrist is flat at impact.</p>
<p>Finally, make sure you&#8217;re managing your expectations. A tour pro isn&#8217;t going to spin back a 30-yard pitch. From full-swing distance, you don&#8217;t need to hit it &#8220;hard&#8221;. Watch a PGA Tour event and I doubt you&#8217;ll ever see a pro crushing a wedge. Their club head speed is generally higher than ours because their swings are more optimal. For instance, if you&#8217;re a slicer, chances are that your club head speed is much lower than possible for the amount of effort you expend. That&#8217;s true for every club in the bag.</p>
<p>That said, I&#8217;m reminded of something I read a while ago. It may have been in Harvey Penick&#8217;s Little Red Book or it may have been a quote from one of the old-time pros or teachers. I&#8217;m not sure the source off the top of my head. But the person was asked by an amateur how he could make the ball spin backward on the green. And his reply was something to the effect of, &#8220;Why would you want to?&#8221;</p>
<p>It sounds dismissive, and I know that when we feel like we&#8217;re not able to replicate what the pros do, that we&#8217;re missing something. But putting that much spin on the ball adds another variable to the short game that you have to account for. Any pro would like his/her shots to stop dead, not spin back, because it&#8217;s just another piece of the puzzle that they have to guess at.</p>
<p>I remember being at the Buick Classic at Westchester Country Club maybe ten years ago. I can&#8217;t remember the hole, but it might have been the 7th. It was a dog-leg par four, and the green was tiered and sloped back to front. It was morning and had rained the day before so everything was soft and wet. The flag was around the middle of the green. I watched three pros in a row hit the ball within a reasonable distance of the flag, only to have their balls spin back all the way off the front of the green. I don&#8217;t remember if any or all of them got up and down, but I know that they would have been looking at birdie had their shots stopped dead or even rolled forward some.</p>
<p>If all else fails, I&#8217;m certain that a lesson or two with a pro will show you what you can do to increase your spin on approach shots.</p>
<p>Best of luck.</p>
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		<title>By: scotty o</title>
		<link>http://www.lifeintherough.com/2010/01/20/trading-science-for-art-around-the-greens/comment-page-1/#comment-17888</link>
		<dc:creator>scotty o</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jul 2011 13:38:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lifeintherough.com/?p=2471#comment-17888</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t seem to make the ball spin backwards on a green. Hit it square and kind of hard is what I try and still no luck. Any tips will be welcomed. Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t seem to make the ball spin backwards on a green. Hit it square and kind of hard is what I try and still no luck. Any tips will be welcomed. Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed H.</title>
		<link>http://www.lifeintherough.com/2010/01/20/trading-science-for-art-around-the-greens/comment-page-1/#comment-8082</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 19:57:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lifeintherough.com/?p=2471#comment-8082</guid>
		<description>I must admit...I am not a golfer (Tournament tennis player). But my 13-year old son eats, drinks and sleeps golf. He plays on the school golf team and is itching to take out his new clubs any day (he has been hitting inside because of snow).

I have been reading your blog just to get familiar with some of the terms. But hey...I know what a gap wedge is. There was one for $44 for sale at Golf Galaxy yesterday. It was a Ping and even I know that seems low. Maybe a discontinued model.

Phil, by the way is his favorite since he is a lefty!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I must admit&#8230;I am not a golfer (Tournament tennis player). But my 13-year old son eats, drinks and sleeps golf. He plays on the school golf team and is itching to take out his new clubs any day (he has been hitting inside because of snow).</p>
<p>I have been reading your blog just to get familiar with some of the terms. But hey&#8230;I know what a gap wedge is. There was one for $44 for sale at Golf Galaxy yesterday. It was a Ping and even I know that seems low. Maybe a discontinued model.</p>
<p>Phil, by the way is his favorite since he is a lefty!</p>
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		<title>By: Stef</title>
		<link>http://www.lifeintherough.com/2010/01/20/trading-science-for-art-around-the-greens/comment-page-1/#comment-7763</link>
		<dc:creator>Stef</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 06:37:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lifeintherough.com/?p=2471#comment-7763</guid>
		<description>players have been adapting perfectly, we will have o see how the season goes though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>players have been adapting perfectly, we will have o see how the season goes though.</p>
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		<title>By: Beth Charette</title>
		<link>http://www.lifeintherough.com/2010/01/20/trading-science-for-art-around-the-greens/comment-page-1/#comment-7646</link>
		<dc:creator>Beth Charette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jan 2010 19:43:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lifeintherough.com/?p=2471#comment-7646</guid>
		<description>Now I know why I am not included in the men&#039;s locker room:

DAVE PELZ????  Spin out of the bunker???  Groove??

When I go golfing with my girlfriends, we talk about our husbands, our golf gloves and the grandchildren.

You mean you guys spend time reading about the spin of your balls out of the rough??

For shame..

Beth</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now I know why I am not included in the men&#8217;s locker room:</p>
<p>DAVE PELZ????  Spin out of the bunker???  Groove??</p>
<p>When I go golfing with my girlfriends, we talk about our husbands, our golf gloves and the grandchildren.</p>
<p>You mean you guys spend time reading about the spin of your balls out of the rough??</p>
<p>For shame..</p>
<p>Beth</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.lifeintherough.com/2010/01/20/trading-science-for-art-around-the-greens/comment-page-1/#comment-7635</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jan 2010 18:04:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lifeintherough.com/?p=2471#comment-7635</guid>
		<description>I can certainly see where learning all the shots with the various wedges would build confidence and all that ... and I carry 4 wedges in the bag, practice with them regularly, and always have every good intention of playing them as needed. But when push comes to shove, it always seems I can pull out my PW or my SW and hit just about any kind of pitch or chip around the green I find myself faced with. I know this comes from all those years when those were the only 2 wedges I carried .. and the SW was basically only used for getting out of green-side bunkers and the occasional flop shot (still is). Maybe I just work better with the &quot;feel&quot; part of it and no so much with having to mentally file all those other clubs/shots in my head ... my 2 cents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can certainly see where learning all the shots with the various wedges would build confidence and all that &#8230; and I carry 4 wedges in the bag, practice with them regularly, and always have every good intention of playing them as needed. But when push comes to shove, it always seems I can pull out my PW or my SW and hit just about any kind of pitch or chip around the green I find myself faced with. I know this comes from all those years when those were the only 2 wedges I carried .. and the SW was basically only used for getting out of green-side bunkers and the occasional flop shot (still is). Maybe I just work better with the &#8220;feel&#8221; part of it and no so much with having to mentally file all those other clubs/shots in my head &#8230; my 2 cents.</p>
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		<title>By: Malcolm</title>
		<link>http://www.lifeintherough.com/2010/01/20/trading-science-for-art-around-the-greens/comment-page-1/#comment-7626</link>
		<dc:creator>Malcolm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jan 2010 06:13:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lifeintherough.com/?p=2471#comment-7626</guid>
		<description>Well, just to draw a comparison to a slightly different type of shot, what do you do when you have to work the ball left or right?  I often find that when I&#039;m trying to induce a low hook around a tree to get to a green, I will alter the club face, my swing plane, or both depending on the circumstances.  Is there any science behind this type of shot?  Absolutely.  However, the execution is all an art, simply because the circumstances of having to work the ball are always different.

I think you can be a good player if you play golf scientifically and mathematically.  I think that to be a great player, you need to learn the art of golf.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, just to draw a comparison to a slightly different type of shot, what do you do when you have to work the ball left or right?  I often find that when I&#8217;m trying to induce a low hook around a tree to get to a green, I will alter the club face, my swing plane, or both depending on the circumstances.  Is there any science behind this type of shot?  Absolutely.  However, the execution is all an art, simply because the circumstances of having to work the ball are always different.</p>
<p>I think you can be a good player if you play golf scientifically and mathematically.  I think that to be a great player, you need to learn the art of golf.</p>
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		<title>By: Double Eagle</title>
		<link>http://www.lifeintherough.com/2010/01/20/trading-science-for-art-around-the-greens/comment-page-1/#comment-7625</link>
		<dc:creator>Double Eagle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jan 2010 05:28:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lifeintherough.com/?p=2471#comment-7625</guid>
		<description>I wonder too.  I haven&#039;t been watching much golf since the season started.  A quick look at the leaderboards shows that scores have been fairly low, but obviously that depends on a lot of factors.  It seems like players have been adapting just fine, but it might be more clear when I have a chance to sit down and watch some golf for an extended period.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder too.  I haven&#8217;t been watching much golf since the season started.  A quick look at the leaderboards shows that scores have been fairly low, but obviously that depends on a lot of factors.  It seems like players have been adapting just fine, but it might be more clear when I have a chance to sit down and watch some golf for an extended period.</p>
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		<title>By: TP Golf Online</title>
		<link>http://www.lifeintherough.com/2010/01/20/trading-science-for-art-around-the-greens/comment-page-1/#comment-7622</link>
		<dc:creator>TP Golf Online</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 22:02:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lifeintherough.com/?p=2471#comment-7622</guid>
		<description>I remember back in the 80&#039;s when square grooves were introduced and agree with Pelz&#039;s statement about the change in spin rates. It was almost overnight you&#039;d see touring pros able to land a ball softly on the green where they previously would have to play a punch type shot and hope the ball stayed on green.  Be interesting to see if the rule change will affect the Bomb and gouge style players on tour.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember back in the 80&#8242;s when square grooves were introduced and agree with Pelz&#8217;s statement about the change in spin rates. It was almost overnight you&#8217;d see touring pros able to land a ball softly on the green where they previously would have to play a punch type shot and hope the ball stayed on green.  Be interesting to see if the rule change will affect the Bomb and gouge style players on tour.</p>
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